The Witching Hour: Why Is 3AM So Terrifying!?

Welcome To The Oddity Shop, Where The Bizarre is Always on Sale.  This week, your Curator Zach is going to keep you  up at night

The clock flips to 3:00 and the room feels different, quieter, heavier, charged. Is that the veil thinning or just your brain finally quiet enough to notice what’s always there? We dive deep into the witching hour with a mix of curiosity, folklore, and hard science, asking whether 3 a.m. is truly a doorway for demons, a sanctuary for witches, or the time human attention becomes razor sharp.

By the end, 3 a.m. feels less like a threat and more like a threshold. If you wake in that window, you can anchor with a breath, say a prayer, or journal what rises. The power isn’t outside you; it’s in the space the world gives back when everything else goes quiet.

Check out our website for all references!

Get All Your Spiritual Supplies From Mystic Moons On Etsy, or Check out their Facebook

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Banter, Books, And Life Updates

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Welcome back to the Oddity Shop Podcast, you little oddballs, the podcast Where We.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Tell you creepy, odd, weird, strange, and bizarre stories from around the world.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

I'm your delirious host, Kara, and this is your other very delirious host, Zachary.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

I'm not delirious. I am very well put together. I'm retired. What's the name with you?

SPEAKER_03 0:57

Oh, so I think I already mentioned this, but I'm putting together for um each month all the books that I read and like little reviews. Actually, this might have been you and I. I'm doing like a challenge with myself. I'm gonna try to read a hundred books in a year. You were saying this on the podcast. Okay. So I am gonna do that for each month. I'm gonna post like a little like tidbit to our Patreon of like the books and my recommendation or my re reviews on the books or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

It'll be like Oprah's reading list, but Kara's.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

Yeah. Um Reese's reading list. So obviously better. Yeah, that's all better. But my wonderful husband bought me a Kindle because he was saying that I was reading so many books that it would just be less expensive to buy me a Kindle and just do the unlimited subscription instead of buying books. So I still have a bunch of physical books that I need to read that are on my surgery cart. Sorry to read them during after surgery, but now I have a Kindle, and so I'm very excited. And it's just like a fun little thing that he just like bought me just because he was like, Nice, you're reading way too many books.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Speaking of Kara recommendations, yeah. I listened to all of best stuff, and I've been waiting.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

So I need to know what you think.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

I uh it was the first five episodes were great. I think they could have done it in five.

SPEAKER_03 2:15

No. Here's the thing I don't know if it's no, I don't think it was. What I think though is that we shouldn't well, you know what? This spoiler, spoiler, spoiler, spoiler. What do you think about who it was? Do you believe it? I don't.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

I do because they they found enough evidence of a phone call.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

I think it was his dad. I think he's covering for his dad.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Uh, I don't know. It it the whole thing was just super, super weird, but it was well done. They were like the energy between them was great. What I do have to say, without giving any spoilers, I already gave a spoiler. The absolute vulnerability of Elizabeth on that.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

Yes. Like I I had goosebumps on crying, I was doing it.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Nope. And nope, like even before after the main thing comes out, when you start to find out more things, I would have been so mortified with myself that I don't think I could have done it. And I'm I'm not trying to fault her in any way. I see exactly what happened, but oh my god, her to go out into the world and put everything out there like that was I and you can tell she's having a tough time at points, but oh, it's so good.

SPEAKER_03 3:28

Here's the thing I thought about it in the or in the mind of you and I, and I talk to our listeners a lot more than you do. Not not to fault you, but like no, it's your thing. Bonded more relationships with our listeners in certain aspects than you have, right? So I can totally see this happening to me in a way where I wouldn't necessarily share everything to you. I'd be like, oh yeah, but but then I was like, no, I would tell you everything. I don't know. And I know it's different because it's a husband and a wife thing, but they have a podcast together. So I don't know. I never faulted her. I think all of it is great. It's like the coming, it's wild, wild, wild, wild. It is such a good podcast.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

It's a good one to listen to for sure. We should stop before we say something like I already give it away. I know, but it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Okay, but you should listen to it regardless. Listen to it, great.

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Great, great, great. Okay, moving on. So remember how I was talking about heated rivalry recently.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

God, it's a whole damn thing everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 4:27

I know. Okay. So here's the thing: I think the reason why they did it is because hockey sales were down and they were trying to get gays to go to games. So we went to a hockey game. I, Kara, we went.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

Didn't we already talk about this?

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Or no, we talked about this, not the podcast. Hold on. We did. Okay, sorry. I went to the hockey game. We went on winning Wednesday. So if they win on winning Wednesday, you get to go again. So me and Julia were gonna go again, except I got the flu, she blew her eardrums, we gave the tickets away. However, they won. So we went this week to our third game on the same tickets.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Nice now.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

We bought second, we splurged on the tickets. We bought second row, and they don't give you the same seats, but they give you the same row.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

Wait, what do you mean you splurged?

SPEAKER_00 5:11

You won, but you so the first time we bought the ticket. Oh, I see what you mean. Gotcha, got you, gotcha. Okay. We are now after yesterday winning again, getting to go to our another game. So the fourth game on these tickets, the third game we're gonna get to go to next Wednesday, and I am so sucked in. I'm buying gear, I'm getting into it. I am like, I've I look at the puck more than I look at the clock, which is better than I used to do on old games. I am I become like a hockey bitch.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

Did a heated heated rivalry rivalry rivalry is a show, but did it start out as a book?

SPEAKER_00 5:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 5:51

Did we talk about okay? Because now I'm getting did we talk because it keeps popping up in my book recommendations, and I couldn't remember if it was because you should watch the show over reading it.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

I tried to read it and it was a bit much for me.

SPEAKER_03 6:02

Yeah, I heard it was crazy book. That's not my vibe on books, so I'm not watching the show, I'm not reading the book, but I'm so happy for you and Julia.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

Oh my god. No, I'm so happy for you guys. It's been a good week. I had that and then sorry, I know I'm talking a lot. No, I love it, but I had a random package showing.

SPEAKER_03 6:23

You've had a lot of random packages though, because every time you get you've had a couple where you're like, Did you know this?

SPEAKER_00 6:28

I'm like, No. People need to start putting their names on it. But I get a $300 Lego set with nothing.

SPEAKER_03 6:36

Did it come from Amazon?

SPEAKER_00 6:37

No, it came from Lego Direct.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

So I like, and I I thought I got a scam email because it was like, you know, like sometimes you get like the UPS like updates. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that it's like coming from Lego. I'm like, oh, this is spam. I'm not opening that. Nope. It was the Lord of the Rings Shire set that my boss sent me as like a late Christmas gift, and it is the cutest thing. I put it together. Of course, I'm I'm ridiculous. It was 2,500 pieces. I think I did it in five hours.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

It was it's very cute. I love your display. It's adorable.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

I've got a new display.

SPEAKER_03 7:10

Post it on Patreon.

SPEAKER_00 7:11

Oh, yeah, I will. It's really cute.

SPEAKER_03 7:13

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Um, but let me write some. That's all I've got. Do you want to talk about what we're doing this weekend?

SPEAKER_03 7:20

We talked about that last time.

SPEAKER_00 7:21

We talked about that for the Patreons.

SPEAKER_03 7:23

Was it for the Patreons? I don't know what the fuck is happening. Are you sure?

SPEAKER_00 7:27

100%.

SPEAKER_03 7:28

Hold on. What was I supposed to write down? Legos.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Legos. Wait, what was it that you wrote down last week? Vibe out, but then no other notes.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

Vibe out first. Like we were supposed to vibe something out first before we committed, is what I'm assuming, but I don't know what my notes are. Okay. Um, we are going to a haunted location. Zachary. Zachary did all of this for a bunch of our friends. I think it's like nine of us going.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Nine of us. It is Missy's birthday. It is technically also your birthday.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

No, this was for Missy's birthday, though. Like, I don't want to take it away from her. This is for Missy. You even in the like you text her, you're like, no, it's for your birthday too. I'm like, no, this was for Missy's birthday. So yeah, we are they wanted to do Missy and her husband Danny wanted to do like a haunted location with us. And so yeah, it's like a couple of her friends. Um, Adam, your cousin, that we love so very much. And Julia is going. Juila is going. I cannot even mala.

SPEAKER_00 8:27

Our resident skeptic.

SPEAKER_03 8:29

And your friend Patrick, who's kind of a skeptic, correct? Um, no, nothing. No, we don't know.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

He just hasn't done he's this will be his first time in a haunted location, I think.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

So yeah, it's like just gonna be so fun.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

So we're going to Stimson

Hockey, Gifts, And Patreon Plans

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Hospital, yeah, in Eden, Michigan. Eaton Rapids, little overnight adventure. So check out Patreon. We'll put some videos up. We might put something on TikTok. But that's about all I got. I talked a lot. Do you have anything else? Are you ready to open up the shop?

SPEAKER_03 8:58

No, I thought we talked about books, we talked about my things. Let's go. Let's go open it up. Do you have a question for me?

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Do you ever find yourself waking up during the night? And not just because you're over 30 and we have to pee.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

No, I never pee. Never. I'm jealous. I you and Aaron get up throughout the night to pee. I never ridiculous. Never do it. Okay, do you ever like wake up? Very rarely if I'm like sleep sleeping. Um, since I've not been well, I don't sleep as great, but I usually just like can't fall asleep. But if I take a melatonin, I will knock the hell out. But then I will wake up at like two, three, four a.m. It's crazy. So yes.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

That's the next question is is it a specific time?

SPEAKER_03 10:54

No, but I know where you're getting at. And actually, can I backtrack a little or no? Should I not?

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Backtrack.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Go for it. When I lived in when I lived in Wisconsin, I lived in a old farmhouse. Very, very, very old farmhouse. Okay. I think we've talked about this a little bit. And in apparently the garage off of the house, the woman that lived there like years prior had hung herself. Okay. I don't know if this is true. This is kind of like a rumor. In the bedroom that I had was a closet. It was a very creepy closet, and the light would always be on. It was like a pull light. And I would walk in my room and always be on. I'd pull it off, like whatever. In that closet, though, was a crawl space to the attic. And apparently, somebody that lived in the house that I knew, like whatever, had gone up there, and there was like creepy, just weird dolls up there they found. Okay, whatever. I in that bedroom, the house is not haunted. That bedroom was okay. Because my phone would never work. I would lose it, it would be misplaced. You'd call it, you couldn't, no signal, whatever. I would wake up at like I can't remember it was like 211 or 311, but it was like on the dot of the 11 every night until one point I just shouted out loud, I need to sleep. I don't know what you want. You're not making it obvious. Let me sleep. Never woke me up again. Never again.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Never again. Because I don't think it was malicious. There was nothing like ill intent. It was just like, hey, hey, I'm here.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

Let's party. All right. Well, you saw it in your house. We've seen it in horror movies. You hear about it during ghost hunts and overnight exp or expeditions. But imagine you wake up, of course, you're gonna look at your alarm clock, or in 2026, more than likely your phone.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

It's 3 a.m. The witching hour. So maybe there's a shadow figure over your bed or just a sense of impending doom. Maybe you have to pee and your lizard brain is screaming at you not to get up. There might be a threat. And if you do get up, we all know this. You have to run back to bed, keep your eyes straight ahead, and get your feet under the blankets as quickly as possible before the skeletal hand reaches out from under your mattress and pulls you into hell.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

Oh, wait, you think it's a skeletal hand?

SPEAKER_00 13:09

For me, it is.

SPEAKER_03 13:10

Oh no, mine's like like a real hand.

SPEAKER_00 13:13

Oh, mine's skeletal or like mouse.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Wow, I've never thought about that. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:17

Well, now you can. So we're gonna dig into this peculiar time of day. It's history, it's lore, it's stories. So buckle up because we're going down the rabbit hole of the witching hour. Okay. Okay. Love it. In folklore, different cultures, ghost stories, and so much more. The witching hour is a time associated with high occurrences of supernatural events.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

A time when witches, demons, and ghosts are able to appear or and are at their most powerful. Okay.

Trip To A Haunted Hospital

SPEAKER_00 13:47

This, of course, starts at 3 a.m. And is said to end at 4 a.m. Exactly one hour. Probably why they call it the witching hour, not witching hours.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

Oh, okay, yeah, yeah. I guess I didn't know when it ended, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Well, it's called the hour, not hours. So. Okay. So as far as the origin of the hour, the earliest recording of it being like written and being called the witching hour comes from 1762, when a poet named Elizabeth Carolyn Keane wrote the line The Witching Hour in her famous book called Miscellaneous Poems. Very creative name. And the poem is created The Nightmare.

SPEAKER_03 14:29

Oh. Wait, what was it?

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Nightmare.

SPEAKER_03 14:32

What was her name?

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Elizabeth Elizabeth. Caroline Keane. Key. K-E-E-N-E.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

Why did you not have to tell me that? And I knew exactly what you're talking about. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

It was a callback though to the writings of Shakespeare, who in Hamlet in 1600 wrote this line. Tis now the very witching time of night when churchyards yawn and hell itself breaks out to contagion in this world. Oh. Oh. All the way back to 1600, we've been kind of talking about it.

SPEAKER_03 15:04

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

So some believe it's so supernatural because that it's the time of day when the veil is thin and spirits are able to come between realms. Others think the strangeness comes from witches or psychics being more powerful during this specific time.

SPEAKER_03 15:20

Okay. Yeah. I I I guess I've thought of it as bowls of that.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

Right? So we're gonna kind of like break it down through the different lenses and how they look at it, right? So the first we're gonna look at it is through like a religious act, but in their sense, sometimes they call it the witching hour, but sometimes they call it by its other name the devil's hour. So it's a time where evil is like at its strength because uh like the devil loves trickery, right? It likes mockery.

SPEAKER_01 15:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

So 3 a.m. specifically is the inverse of the time when Jesus was crucified. So most people believe he was crucified at 3 p.m. So the exact opposite would be the time for darkness, right? So if 3 p.m. is the time of good, 3 a.m. is the time when like the devil kind of takes over. Okay, so it's a mockery of Jesus dying. Got it. Well, we talked about the term the witching hour coming up in the 1700s. The Catholic Church has been weary of this time for much, much longer. Okay. Back in 1535, the church actually

Opening The Shop: Night Waking

SPEAKER_00 16:28

forbade activities from 3 to 4 a.m. Oh. Okay. While we're looking at it through the religious lens, right? The church believed that this was a time that demons and evil forces were at their strongest and that humans would be at their most sleepy, leaving them vulnerable to evil attacks. Which we do know when you're sleepy, you can fall for cults. We were just talking about that. Yes. In evil times, they also believed that like God's influence on humanity ebbed and flowed throughout the day. Okay. This time of darkness, his influence and protection were at the weakest. Daylight was God's domain. Okay. And the night brought uncertainty, temptation, and vulnerability. Um, some churches, like modern churches, actually still believe this that like God isn't as strong at night.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

Can I really quickly, how do what do you feel on that?

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Um, I will say it this way. So I I am not nearly as religious as I used to be, but I I grew up in the church. You know, and it was never preached to me this way. I think if you are going to believe in an almighty, what what is it, omniscient? Oh, it's a three omni, is that he's everywhere, that he's all knowing, and a third one. I'm I'm sorry. I cannot help you. If we think that God is as powerful as he is, his power wouldn't ebb and flow throughout the day. Long story short.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

Okay, hold on. I'm so sorry. I think of it as like a not not a religious thing because it's funny to me. It's a control. No, no, no, it's funny to me because when have you ever gotten in trouble or gotten into trouble, like just mischief? It's always at night. Always. So even if you don't take what that is, it's

Defining The Witching Hour

SPEAKER_03 18:18

funny to me because even if you're not a religious person and I never went to church, I never had to, I never got indoctrinated to that. It's always like during the day, you're like good and whatever. And it's just like for whatever reason at night, it's like it's perception, which is weird.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

Do you think you can get away with it?

SPEAKER_03 18:33

Because where did that come from, though? Like, I was were you taught, I was never taught that.

SPEAKER_00 18:38

I think it's just when you feel less eyes on you.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

Oh, that's a very good point. That that's obvious, but that's such a good point.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

So back to the church. That's fine. Um, some churches still believe this, and this is why, right? Is sudden awakenings were feared, uh-huh, nightmares were seen as demonic visitations, and that unexplained fear that you kind of feel at night, that's not actually from inside you. That is a spiritual attack while the devil is strong. Okay. They also believed that temptation intensified at night. So here are some warning signs.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

I don't know if I don't know if I disagree with that.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Oh, but here's some warning signs that evil is lurking around the 3 a.m. hours. Lust, blasphemous thoughts, heretical dreams, sexual invitation or visitations, always from incubi and succubi. Nightmares, erotic dreams, fearful visions at night. Basically, the church didn't want you getting horny at night or being scared.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

Well, I was just thinking of it like when I was a bad person, I would want to do drugs at night, and we want to drink more at night.

SPEAKER_00 19:55

Like well, that's just because you're bored. Maybe which we never did drugs and we don't condone drinking. I'm gonna take a sip of my beer.

SPEAKER_03 20:04

Me too.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Okay, so the clergy interpreted all these things though

Religious Roots And The Devil’s Hour

SPEAKER_00 20:07

as demonic interference, punishment for your sin, and evidence of witchcraft, because those lustful thoughts weren't your own, they had to be placed there. Because of these fears, though, Christians were taught to pray if they awoke suddenly, make the name or make the sign of the cross and speak the name of Jesus out loud. Many of the like the prayers at this time are specifically mention like the hour of the devil, the dark watch, the unholy silence.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

Are we still in 15?

SPEAKER_00 20:39

This is kind of like the Catholic Church throughout the years.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

Okay. I I just want to say a small little tidbit. I can understand that being in 15, whatever you said, 76, whatever. I understand, because you don't know, right? Like every year we get smarter and things like progress and like we understand more. Well, some of us I can I can get behind how these people believed these things. Like, I don't want to like say that I think that they're idiotic. Like I they are like the thoughts are now because we're in 2026.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

Well, I also think we understand the brain and chemicals and all those kind of things. And hormones that they do spike at night when cortisol drops down, whatever.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

So, yes.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

There are a lot of people who still pray at 3 a.m. if they awake because they the fears that they and it's less the sex thing, you know, it's more the fear and that feeling of being watched or not alone. You if you believe that the forces of evil are on our planet, yeah, you're still gonna pray.

SPEAKER_03 21:39

Yeah. I I'm just saying, like, I can understand way back when how all of this like really, really made sense.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

I think it's changed throughout the years, right? It's not so much witches and stuff anymore, but there's it's still the the evil lurking. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

Okay. Any more thoughts on Christianity before we move on? Or just the church?

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Well, not that I'm gonna say. Continue on, my love.

SPEAKER_00 22:04

The next lens that we're gonna look at it through is through witchcraft. Love it. If we look at the witching hour through a lens of witchcraft, right? We're gonna first go historically, because you know that is how I do. Because of the fear, though, that of 3 a.m. that was from the church, this leads into the fear from witches, because the church said witches were doing things to make you feel horny at night, and they were constantly put on trial and executed as more than the horniest. I don't know why I'm just hanging on the lustful dreams.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

Listen.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

But the 1400s through 1700s, the European witch trials endured, and witches were believed to belong to the night. So it's that whole thing of witches being uh belonging to the night wasn't based on their pagan practice of actual witches. It was built by clergy, judges, demonologists, yeah, and confessions extracted under torture.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

One of the articles I read, I took this line right from it, was nighttime became the stage for everything the church feared. Oh which I thought was good. Yeah. So if witches existed, they had to operate in darkness. And this is of course Kara because they could travel invisibly at night and had to avoid holy daylight.

Does Divine Power Weaken At Night

SPEAKER_03 23:22

So here's how I think of it though, which is had to uh practice at night, because if they practiced during the day, they'd be fucking murdered.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Yeah, right. It's that like uh what came first, the chicken or the egg kind of deal. Like, my god, according to like trial era belief, which is gathered at night in forests, ruins, and mountaintops, they worshipped the devil and they performed mockeries of Christian sacraments. If you didn't think it sounded like a good enough time, the gatherings were said to include dancing, sexual rights, cannibalism, and infanticide. At least the first two things are fine. Yeah. There was never any evidence though that these things occurred as described.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

No.

SPEAKER_00 24:09

Um, what did exist were folk festivals, seasonal gatherings, community rituals, right? Things honoring nature. And yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:19

Okay, so here's the thing. Let's just say you're Doug. I'm Sally. I'm a witch, right? And so you're Doug. And so if Doug was to go and spy on me, Sally, a witch doing all these weird things at night, right? Doug is also gonna get accused of like, why were you up at that hour? Why were you right? So there is no actual evidence because so Doug's gotta throw you under me as Doug.

SPEAKER_00 24:44

I have to throw you under the bus.

SPEAKER_03 24:45

Right. And then, but then the but everyone would prosecute you, like Doug, why were you out at that hour?

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Because I was only awake to stop her from killing babies.

SPEAKER_03 24:53

How dare you! Like, come on.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Okay, so, anyways, though, there's the the church just like painted these demonic caricatures of witches, right? Love it, and then later, of course, the the witch trials come to America. We have the Salem witch trials. It it's all just based on fear more than any sort of fact. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. And and we know during both trials, all it did was kill innocent women, like lives were lost brutally, to what turns out to be just like a fear of the dark.

Witch Trials And Nighttime Stereotypes

SPEAKER_03 25:26

And yes, mostly women, but there were a lot of men too that were murdered. It was mostly women, but it's just we're yes, the dark, but it's just like the fear of the unknown.

SPEAKER_00 25:37

And like, so if we're gonna keep our witchcraft lens on, though, I think we have to take a look at it from the modern witch, right? Okay, witchcraft a little bit more popular now, a little bit more accepted. And I tried to find some like accounts of how practitioners of magic today felt about the witching hour. And there there seem to be two camps actually. Yeah. Some that are reclaiming it but changing the energy about it, and some who are almost like denouncing it. And I I think that it kind of calls to a an interesting thing in witchcraft where it's not like everyone is following this one doctrine, everyone really kind of makes it their own thing. And I think so much of modern witchcraft comes to the um what you prescribe to it. It's very personal, it's very, you know, so you can interpret it in a lot of different ways. Absolutely. And I think everyone, every witch probably interprets it very differently. So one article I found said this modern witches view the witching hour typically midnight, or typically between midnight to 3 a.m. is the starting point, as a potent time for magic because of heightened spiritual connection, higher introspection, and seeing it as a time when the veil between worlds is thin for spirit communication, while others focus on personal empowerment, using the quiet for deep meditation, spell work, or connecting with their inner selves, moving beyond the fearful folklore to a time of transformation. While some find it ideal for powerful rituals or interacting with spirits and deities, others prefer different transition times, emphasizing that any time works with intention, but the witching hour offers unique energies for specific purposes.

SPEAKER_03 27:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:28

So another article though that I found said that most modern witches do not believe in the witching hour. Instead, they work with moon phases, seasonal cycles, personal energy, planetary hours. So either way you break it down for them, what happens is there's a meaning given to 3am that is no longer sacred and no longer or that for some is sacred, but it's no longer feared, right? They they've taken every view of the modern witch has taken the fear away from it.

SPEAKER_03 27:59

Mm-hmm. Which I like.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

I mean difference of opinion, right? It's it's maybe more a little bit situation to situation or witch to witch, but it's not seen as a time of evil, which is great for them. Uh and the easiest way you can put it down is the night is quiet, it's not for the devil.

SPEAKER_03 28:17

The devil's chaos, right? Like the devil like ensues.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Now, I'm not saying that, like, well, you're you're taking the devil more in like a tarot esoteric version. Well where this meaning is like church devil, like, yeah, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

I I just think though, that I think that if you're gonna think of it that way, any if you're a troubled, bad, whatever we want to say, person, corrupted devil uh worshiper, any amount of quiet, still alone time is going to be corruptive to you. Does that make sense? Yeah, it doesn't have to be at a certain hour.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

I have I have another quote that might kind of sum up what you're trying to say. Okay, yeah, yeah. So some may prefer to do their rituals during this time, not to conjure evil energy, but because things are still and quiet. Yeah, focus on meditation runs deeper, intuition sharpens, it's practical, not sinister.

SPEAKER_03 29:20

Yes, because I love like I I wish I could run the night. Like I love being up so late by myself and just like there's nothing, there's no nothing, like there's no humming, there's no busy, there's just a me.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

There's so much less stimulation, and I think it allows our brains to think very differently, yes, and focus on different things. And I think so much of witchcraft and manifestation and spells and all that is really internal in what you're focusing on. And if you're able to shut out the rest of the world, of course it's gonna be stronger at those times, right? Yes, yes, Queen. Okay, uh. So we've gone through the church, we've gone through witches.

SPEAKER_03 30:02

Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

The next lens that we have to look through is the paranormal lens, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Oh, like your face is like okay, yes, that's our favorite.

Modern Witchcraft: Reclaim Or Reject

SPEAKER_00 30:10

You and I both know every haunted location says the same thing. When is the activity highest?

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Oh my god, at night, and then in the dark, especially at 3 a.m., right?

SPEAKER_00 30:23

So Okay. Nope, say what you're gonna say.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

No, say it at 3 a.m., do you think any of the places that we've been have been more or less?

SPEAKER_00 30:34

Uh the the literally next line that I said, I'm gonna disagree with you. I said we've seen some evidence of it being a little bit true. I mean, there are times now I'm gonna put a caveat on it. Let me get the sentence out. I I know you want to say it. There are times when things get really active at 3 a.m.

SPEAKER_03 30:49

However, I don't think I don't think that we've gotten more things at 3 a.m.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

I this is why I told you I'm disagreeing with you and let me say my sentence. Sorry. But I think the reason that we've gotten more things at 3 a.m., which we we definitely have, is on nights when there was a lot of people around and slowly but surely they dropped off and there was less commodity.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

That's true. Okay, so because thank you, because this is what I was gonna say. I feel that you and I get the most evidence, whether it's night, day, whatever, you and I. I don't know what it is. You and I can be in a room and we just get everything. Like they love us.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

And I don't know if it's specifically you and I, I think it's just when you you minimize the living activity.

SPEAKER_03 31:33

I think I disagree with that. And the reason I'm gonna say this is because do you remember when we were at Eloise and we were in the um firehouse? Yes, you and I got so much shit no matter what time it was, as long as we had good we had good energy. But it's always like you and I get such great things together. We are like a beacon together. They love when you go under and I speak for everything.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

I also think it's there's a way in which without going into too much of a side, because we have a we don't go for the fear factor, we don't go for the entertainment factor, we just go for communication.

SPEAKER_03 32:08

Communication, but I respect. And I think that's why it doesn't matter what time it is for you and I.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

So, anyways, back into it through the the most accepted paranormal lens, right? Across many cultures, night isn't symbolic or isn't just symbolic, but it's when people report apparitions, voices, shadow figures being followed, time distortions, sudden senses of being watched. Okay. And it's not just ghosts. Many researchers, many people who aren't researchers, you know, victims of the uh paranormal we'll call them, people who are unwilling. They've documented that things increase at night at least, but usually it's higher like 3 a.m. is the time of sleep paralysis, the old hag, the hat man. More poltergeist happens or activity happens at this time, objects moving on their own, doors and windows.

SPEAKER_03 33:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Or how many people just wake up at 3 a.m. with fear?

SPEAKER_03 33:04

Really small thing, can I say?

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

We kind of touched on a little bit. You kind of feel less watched, like you said at night. So I would also imagine that like when it's not bright and sunny and like around, like you as a spirit, an entity, whatever, like you feel less watched, like you feel secure and like you can lurk around, or like just be yourself, not even creepy. Like you can just kind of like, okay, it's like dark, maybe they won't see me type of thing. So I don't think it's citizens.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Let me ask you this. What do you think that the spirit actually becomes more active at that time, or is it the human who has less sensory input, heightened senses due to being in a like a fearful state, and less stimulus from the day that we just see it more at night? Human. I think that because and and that you literally cut into like my next line of I agree that some paranormal researchers think that activity increases at night, but I think we're ignoring the human aspect of it. Yeah, we are. I'm because even till midnight, you still have cars going by, you still have noises outside, you still have so much other. But by 3 a.m., the world is so quiet.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

Well, for me personally, I only see things during the day, right? Like I see my shadow figures like kind of creeping around door frames and stuff. That's only during the day. That's not at night, it's never at night. I know I never have any sort of experiences like like I do, but like you know what I mean, saying like so. Yeah, I think it's just that we are more vulnerable, like we're taught to be more vulnerable at night, right? Like it's it's creepy at night, like weirdos are out at night. Like you're just like you're more on

Paranormal Lens: Activity At 3 A.M.

SPEAKER_03 34:48

edge at night.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

And I would say it's not even just taught, that is evolutionary, yeah. For thousands of years, yeah, right, humans and whatever we came from evolutionary. You had to have an awareness at night to survive. Night is dangerous, and and not from the religious aspect of the devil, not from fear of witches, it was just a time where you were sleeping and you couldn't be on guard for whatever was hunting you before we were apex predators, right?

SPEAKER_03 35:19

Right. So, like it's even like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

And this is where I start to argue. I think the the witching hour, I don't think it's as much a time where spirits and demons and witches gain power. I think it's more of a time when everything else slows down that we can start to see things that are going on in the world around us.

SPEAKER_03 35:43

So I 100% agree.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

I think there's power to the witching hour, but I don't think that power comes externally from the spirit. No, it's when humans can actually experience the world in a different way.

SPEAKER_03 35:55

Calm. I 100% agree with you, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:59

And it kind of puts a different spin on it, it takes some of that fear away from it. You you should have the fear all the time if you really believe that demons are out there, right? Because that they're gonna exist daylight, night time, 12 p.m., 2 a.m. Like it it's not just like oh 3 a.m. It's time to attack the humans.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

It is so funny that we're talking about this because I've never thought about this until this very moment of us having this conversation. I, since you and I started investigating, had this podcast, I don't give a shit what time it is. It doesn't matter to me because I have learned, I have seen, I have witnessed the wildest things at any time frame of our lives. Absolutely. And so I'm not fearful of the night, but I 100% agree with you is that it's just when we're calm, there's not the chaos of the world around us distracting us. And this is also, we could go down a rabbit hole, but we're not going to. We could go down a rabbit hole of how this is also why children and our pets see spirits when we don't, because they don't have that, they have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 37:09

They don't have jobs and responsibilities and all these other things. They don't have the spikes in cortisol. They have the chaos. What I found really interesting is while researching this, the science of it, it so many things linked to heightened awareness when your cortisol drops and your cortisol drops at 3 a.m. when you're in deep REM sleep. Yeah, you're you finally come off of this like stress mode, right? And start to like experience it's it's very strange. What I will say though is I did find some cultural things of of 3 a.m. beliefs that I think are fun. They're cool.

SPEAKER_03 37:46

No, I love it. Give it to me.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Um, so Japan, the witching hour for them or like the their hour, we won't call it the witching hours from 1 a.m. to 3 a.m. And they have a phrase called Ushi no Koku Mari, which translates to the shrine visit during the hour of the ox. Now, this was a time when they believed that spirits could be compelled. So it's less the spirits having the interaction on them and them having the interactions on the spirits. Now, to call back to your episode, a person seeking vengeance could visit a shrine and call upon on Ryo for help to spite other people. Rituals were also designed at this time to invoke curses or transformation. Time mattered because the hour of the ox was considered spiritually unstable, quiet enough for the supernatural to hear and free from social interference.

SPEAKER_03 38:41

I just love culture, I just love other people's cultures

Human Factors Over Supernatural Timing

SPEAKER_03 38:46

and religions and things like it. Just oh my god, okay, that's crazy. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 38:51

Okay, Latin America. The witching hour was the time for La La Ronia, the weeping woman. And we could do an entire episode on it. So we'll keep it. Okay. But, anyways, she would be seen near rivers or rural roads, and she would cry louder and louder, drawing people to their death. That's all I'm gonna say on that because we do really need to. Yeah, I really do want to do La Laurona. I love her. Scandinavia, I like theirs, I think you will too. Nighttime, especially 3 a.m., is said to belong to non-human beings, not demons, but spirits, trolls, and landvitar.

SPEAKER_03 39:29

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Which are lands like earth spirits. Yeah, they roam freely during this time and become hostile if encountered because it's their time. And they punish those who don't respect their boundaries. And trolls, in particular, because they turn to stone during the daylight, they gain strength and cunning at night. And that's when they would lure travelers off-roads. Um, so for them. The danger isn't moral evil, it's just encountering the wrong being in their time. Like us. Right? Traditional Chinese belief, yin and yang, yin is dark, passive, spiritual. Yang is light, active living. So night is dominated by the yin energy between 11 p.m. to 3 a.m. It weakens the barrier between worlds, ghosts are able to wander freely, and the ghost hour for them is associated with spirits returning home to visit loved ones. That's why you have the dreams of loved ones, right? That's why grief bubbles up at these times.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

Um, it's also for hungry ghost seeking offerings. Like you're not paying attention to me, or increased just increased risk of spiritual encounters. So for them, the hour isn't cursed, it's not dark, it's not evil, it's just out of balance.

SPEAKER_03 40:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

So that's some of the cultural fun I found about it. We we started talking about the science of it, right? Like cortisol stops spiking, or that's why you wake up. Your circadian rhythm, right, goes between sleep and wakefulness at different times of the night, and 3 a.m. is when body temperature for whatever reason rises. Okay. And alertness comes up because hormones do release. It's almost like as soon as you hit that chillest level of sleep, your body just like. Go and that you could be jolted awake and have that fear reaction or whatever. So there's some of that that's scientifically explained. And like we talked about evolution, like your body remembers it from hundreds of thousands of years, not hundreds of thousands, but thousands of years of evolution. Brain wants to detect threat even when nothing is obvious.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Anyways, that's a shit ton of information in 50 minutes of the witching hour. But I tend to think that it isn't evil. It isn't I almost said that witches aren't more powerful. I I'm gonna I'm gonna say that they are, but it's not because of a certain time. Nope. It's because humans slow down and all of a sudden the worries of the world disappear and we're able to see things through a very different perspective, and our senses aren't hit by so much stimulus that at 3 a.m. you can maybe experience some of those things that are going on in the world all the time. You're just

Cultural Takes From Japan To China

SPEAKER_00 42:22

finally able to key in.

SPEAKER_03 42:24

Yeah. So here's what I'll say. I don't necessarily think that it's like night, it's just the hours that people aren't stirring, right? So even like I've been waking up um a lot lately, like 5:30, 6 a.m. And I just like do some shit and like whatever, and it's like quiet and still, and it can be very creepy. It's the same as at like 3 a.m., right? So it's like or 12, 1. It's just because you're alone, you're like in your mind, like you're there's something about dawn too that's just you're just still. And so I think that, like you said, I think that in that silence, that's still of your own, you bring yourself power, right? So, like I am way more powerful when I'm by myself in my thoughts and I can get shit done. Way more powerful. And that is literally at night, whether it's 12 to 3 to 4, or I wake up very early. It's just it's a true thing. It's not, it doesn't necessarily have to be at night. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 43:22

Like, it's just so have we debunked the witching hour?

SPEAKER_03 43:26

I think that maybe, but I love the belief though that people have in the witching hour. I don't want to take that away because I think that it is like still so powerful in certain aspects.

SPEAKER_00 43:36

I but I think it's intrinsically powerful, not externally. Yeah, yeah. Internally is probably better than intrinsic.

SPEAKER_03 43:44

Yeah. Um, no, I love this episode because I think it's just like great. I think it's just like you think about it, but yeah, I I just don't know one single person that doesn't love like a portion of time when no one else is stirring. I I can't think of that. And I know there are some people where they love the chaos, they thrive on that, and they like always want to be doing stuff, so I guess I shouldn't say that. But yeah, I know that's great.

SPEAKER_00 44:08

I love it so much. So to wrap us up and to follow in your footsteps. Mine. I have some Red Eit stories for you. However, if you want to hear them, yeah, you're gonna have to come over to Patreon. We're gonna read them to you.

SPEAKER_01 44:26

I am so excited.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

If you want some, I and this is what I did. I focused on stories where things actually happen to people at 3 just to give some credence to it's an hour.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:37

It's not inactive, right? So uh yeah, we'll we will do that. We'll post that on Patreon. Um, with that being said, guys, we would love reviews. We would love your write-in stories. We are gonna have very shortly another uh we have enough episode enough write-ins now for an episode, so that's coming soon. I don't know what else. What else do we need to do before we close the shop up for the day?

SPEAKER_03 45:00

Well, we're getting to that point that if for whatever reason you don't get a Thursday episode and you have not gotten a Thursday episode in like what three years? If you don't, though, it's because of my surgery and I I'm just down too bad.

SPEAKER_00 45:14

We pre-recorded ahead as much as we could.

SPEAKER_03 45:16

I'm not gonna say I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

We slack for a little bit. I think you'll find it in your hearts to forgive us. Kara's gonna be going through a lot, but it's gonna be amazing, and we are gonna come back, and we might be fine. I've just yeah, we we might not have a break. God'll know.

SPEAKER_03 45:30

Listen, I don't fucking know.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

I might be just crazy and like we've stayed six weeks ahead for a reason, okay? You guys always hear us talking about how we're in the future. We were waiting for a moment like this.

SPEAKER_03 45:39

Yes, mommy, Kelly Clarkston. Everybody cash Kelly Clarkston on all our episodes. Maybe we could be on the Kelly Clarkston show.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

I don't think she wants our weirdness.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

No, she does. She likes haunted things.

SPEAKER_00 45:52

Oh, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_03 45:53

Okay, well, with all that being said, we gave you two very long episodes back to back. We we we gave, we delivered. We are fierce.

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Okay. We're delirious. Stop giving it adjectives, wrap it up. What do these people have to do so we can close the shop up for the day?

SPEAKER_03 46:09

I hate when you put pressure on me. Oh, the only thing I ever think you should say is that for us. It's a creeper, really, you little oddballs. Goodbye.