Oddity Shop
This podcast examines the oddities of the world...Cryptids to Conspiracies, Cults to Curiosities, Myths to Mysteries, and so much more! Stop by the shop, where the bizarre is always on sale... Each week your curators, Kara Perakovic and Zach Palmer will be opening the shop and sharing stories with you.
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Oddball Guests: Sam Baltrusis on Ghost Writers and Paranormal Monsters
Welcome to a Very Special Episode of The Oddity Shop! In The Shop This Week, Sam Baltrusis stops by to talk about his books, relationship to Lizzie Borden, Men in hats, and so much more!
The conversation with Sam Baltrusis begins with an unexpected spectral scream—just seconds before our recording starts—setting the perfect tone for an exploration into the world of a man who walks confidently between realms. As a journalist, author of 18 paranormal books, and psychic medium, Sam brings a unique combination of investigative rigor and psychic sensitivity to his work.
The discussion takes fascinating turns through America's most haunted locations, from the elemental energies to the stone tape theory explaining why certain buildings retain spiritual energies. Sam's upcoming 19th book explores haunted castles of New England, examining these architectural vessels of paranormal activity.
Perhaps most riveting is Sam's revelation about his genealogical connection to Lizzie Borden, forever changing his perspective on the infamous case. Rather than viewing her as a cold-blooded killer, Sam now serves as her advocate, believing she's been misrepresented by historical narratives controlled by those with agendas. through a more compassionate lens.
Sam's experiences offer a compelling glimpse into what happens when we dare to communicate with what lies beyond our understanding. Join us for this unforgettable journey through hauntings, history, and the healing power of truth.
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I want to dance with the mothman At the ID shop, baked in the moonlight At the ID shop. Creep through the graveyard To the ID shop. The door's always open at the Oddity Shop. What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Oddity Shop, the place where the bazaar is always on sale, and we're here to tell you creepy, odd, odd and weird and bizarre stories from around the world. As always, I am sitting here with the lovely curator, kara. Kara, how are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing fabulous. How are you?
Speaker 1:Oh, not too bad. Not too bad actually Good, Pretty excited.
Speaker 2:I was going to say we're going to keep this intro a little bit short, because today we actually have a very special guest with us, someone who has spent years uncovering the haunted history behind some of the most infamous locations in America. He's a journalist, an author, a paranormal researcher and a lecturer whose work has been featured on the Travel Channel Discovery Plus. You've written over, I think, 18 books, including the Ghost of Salem. I actually have a book right here of yours I've got one on my shelf too.
Speaker 3:Welcome in Sam Baltrusisusis.
Speaker 1:Right, I said that right right, yeah, you said it right, hey, sam. So we're so excited to have you in the shop today. Man, how, how are you doing?
Speaker 3:I'm doing well. Yeah, I, when I, before I came on, I heard you guys heard a spectral scream, so and so I'm doing okay. But I'm kind of like what's like? I wonder if, like what, my distant cousin, lizzie borden, is visiting us okay, this is really funny, so literally jump right on in oh yeah, we're going right into it.
Speaker 1:So me and kara are in the recording studio where we're waiting for sam to join and literally about 10 seconds before you join, I looked at care. I'm like, is that kids like screaming in your neighborhood or mine? Well, I went to pull off my headphone, couldn't hear anything. Kara wasn't hearing it. And then sam jumped in and he's like we're literally trying to figure out where the screaming's coming from. And you said this is something that's happened before yeah.
Speaker 3:So when I was filming, curse lizzie borden, with dave schrader and chris fleming, um, so the producers asked me the the question that everyone wants to know Lizzie, did you kill your father and stepmother? And so I'm doing an EVP. I'm like Lizzie, did you kill your father and stepmother? And I heard like a really anguished screaming, like stop asking me that question, stop asking me that question. And I promised, you know, I told her. After that I'm like you know what, I'm never going to ask that question again. And I I feel like with, with I, when I hear that scream, it's more like oh my gosh, you're gonna like talk about me again, like talk about the murders again. So I I do feel, you know that it does kind of follow me and uh, and I do want, I want the screaming to stop, if you will well, I I don't blame you.
Speaker 1:It was a little jarring on our end, although nothing too out of the norm, I think, for me and Kara at this point.
Speaker 2:But yeah, but that's so, that's wild. I mean, I guess that's how she gets your attention, I don't she needs to figure out a different way.
Speaker 1:Exactly Well. Thank you for joining us, Lizzie. We won't ask you about the murders. We promise, Promise.
Speaker 2:Promise.
Speaker 3:She's very happy right now she's she's kind of she's got her new england uh, kind of scornful look.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she does kind of have that look for those who can't see, he's holding up a picture of her. So you know we're. We're so glad you're here, though, uh, bringing your spectral screaming and relatives and all. But you know, for those who might not know, do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 3:sure? So my name is sam is Sam Baltrusis. You got the name right, which is great.
Speaker 3:So I've written 18 paranormal themed books. I've also done a lot of television. People know me for Curse of the Zeeborg, but I've done a lot of other programs like A Haunting, and I was also a producer on season 11 of A Haunting. Terrifying places, fright club, paranormal night shift list goes on and on. But I think for me, the stuff that I'm most passionate about is definitely my writing and my books. And, uh, the book that I'm known for the most probably is ghost to salem and um I've written we're actually currently working on book number 19, which is is Haunted Castles of New England, and that's been so much fun working on that.
Speaker 2:That's a lot of books.
Speaker 3:It's fun, I love it, I love it.
Speaker 1:This might be just a totally ignorant question, but do we actually have like full castles, or what are the castles of?
Speaker 3:It's actually. That's a really good, that's actually a really pertinent question. So yeah, American castles versus the castles you find in Europe are definitely there's no comparison and there's a lot of comparing and contrasting, A lot of the and people have said this to me in my interviews that the castles in America are kind of like movie sets. You know they're almost like they're kind of like copycats of what's found overseas. But I will say there's a lot in new england especially that are haunted. And so once hammock castle in gloucester and I spent halloween's past halloween there and it was so much fun and, yes, it was built in the late 1800s and it doesn't have the history that a lot of the castles like the lancaster castle over you know, in england, or chillingham, all the ones that we know, but I do. I find it really fun to look at it and also look at the idea why would a castle be haunted versus another location like a?
Speaker 3:haunted mansion, and a lot of it has to do with what it's made out of. It's made out of granite limestone and that does retain the paranormal activity.
Speaker 2:Isn't that the stone tape theory?
Speaker 3:It is. Yeah, so it's a stone tape theory, and I do and that's kind of like the big question Like, does that materials used to build these castles and I'm using hand quotes, air quotes, yeah, but castles are, you know, and this is a really good look into the stone tape theory that energy is absorbed into the stones or into the walls. In this case, it's usually rocks that are used to build the castles, the american castles that's so cool.
Speaker 1:I I haven't actually heard of stone tape theory. Oh, you haven't. Yeah, do you want? You guys want to give me like the 30 second rundown? I mean that's kind of it.
Speaker 2:It's just the theory that, like certain materials hold that energy, and is it um? Correct me if I'm wrong? Is it a loop that they think it's playing?
Speaker 3:it's almost like a residual haunting, so like the spectral scream that you heard, like that could be considered a residual haunting, so something triggers it and it's absorbed into like a rock, or into the foundation or into the land and something triggers it. Usually I'm a notorious trigger for that stuff, so it'll set it off. Something will set off the haunting.
Speaker 2:That's cool.
Speaker 3:I have goosebumps.
Speaker 2:So I feel like you're always so busy If anybody doesn't follow you on social media, or if they do, you're always all over the place doing so many different things. And now you're writing your 19th book and I read somewhere that you you used to or do you still do newspaper editing, because I don't know how you have time if you do.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, no, no, I used to. So for 20 years I was a journalist and yeah, so that, like that, was my precursor to what I currently do now is writing books. So I would. I was editor of two local magazines at the time and I wrote an article for Stuff Magazine, which is a magazine in the Boston area that's no longer and that turned into my first book, ghost of Boston. So I would always write the paranormal themed articles, and this is back in, I think, 2012, or 2011, 2012, that I wrote that first article. That turned into a three book deal, and so it kind of transitioned from a print journalist to an editor, to full time paranormal. I also work the overnight shift at hotels and that's that's sort of my primary job, and I try my best to work at haunted hotels because really does.
Speaker 2:I was just going to ask.
Speaker 3:I kind of double-dip. I like doing the research and then working the overnight shift, which is slower usually, and I can have time to think about my books, sometimes write it, but don't quote me on that because my boss would be like you're writing books while you're working, but I do kind of do both and it really works out well. Yes, I'm super busy, but I love, I love it. I love every minute of it. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:When you were starting as the, the journalist was the paranormal always there. Did you fall into it? How did you kind of make that switch into the paranormal?
Speaker 3:That's a really good question Because, like for me, I was terrified. For most of my career as a journalist I did use so I identify as a clairvoyant, and as a clairvoyant that's sort of like an umbrella term, but it's someone that's highly intuitive and sensitive and I've always had those gifts. And clairvoyant specifically sees, so I'll get mind pictures. Sometimes I'll visually see things like playing charades and the spirit will try to tell me what they're trying to convey. So this is something that I used as a journalist and I kind of kept it in the closet, if you will.
Speaker 3:And when I started writing paranormal themed books, I didn't want to lose my credibility as a journalist because that was my full-time gig. I mean, I was working steadily writing articles, and then my secret kind of came out hey, I'm actually using my abilities to, you know, focus on. I did a lot of investigative stories and that actually worked well as a clairvoyant because I was able to kind of like look at the case with a paranormal lens. Like look at the case with with a paranormal lens. So, yeah, it was. It transitioned pretty quickly Like I started off. I still, I was still writing books and I was an editor of a Mac, two magazines that I ended up like what's happened in the print industry. Unfortunately there's not a lot of work, so yeah, the writing the books has kind of become my primary gig.
Speaker 2:When did you kind of tap into your abilities? Have you always had them, or like, when did you figure that out?
Speaker 3:Well, so it's. I started off as a kid. I grew up I actually grew up in Florida. My dad was in the Navy and we I, my, my, my granddaddy would visit me when I was around like eight years old seven to eight years old and I would have conversations with him and my mother who's Southern and I'm like I'm talking to granddaddy and my grandfather had passed when I was a little, a few years before that, and it turns out when I, the room that I was staying at my granddaddy's house was actually his room and I didn't know that as a kid.
Speaker 3:And then it got progressively darker. For me as a kid, like there was a man wearing a hat with red glowing eyes that kind of peeked in my window one night and my sister was with me while we saw it and that's something I just shut down. Wow, I went most of my young adult life still having experiences, but just terrified. Young adult life still having experiences, but just terrified. And a big part of like who I am as an investigator is someone that was, you know, just kind of like Scooby Doo. They would bring me to a haunted location and I would be like ah and like screaming and get me out of here.
Speaker 3:And what happened is I found out that that energy was like kind of fueling the spirits and I, I, I actually wrote a book called Fueled by Fear, where I talk about that, like that energy would make the darker entities respond, almost gave them more energy and I was food for this, for the entities I mean, I was like I was giving them so much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, sam, you and I are going to keep going, but Zach just texted me that he lost audio, so he's probably gonna drop. So if you, not a problem.
Speaker 2:No, that's so funny, though, that you started out like the Scooby Doo, like so scared, like that's so funny. And now here you are, just bopping all around all these haunted locations and it's like your passion. I was gonna ask you. I now that we're kind of like on this subject of it, like the more paranormal part, I read, or I think I actually watched an interview and I don't remember who it was, but you had an attachment at one point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that was the episode of a haunting, so the fact that that Zach lost his his audio is not surprising to me because he's a slider, if you know what that is, where he just like messes up all technology all the time, so this is a normal thing for us we had axion, if you know who she is, and she's a psychic medium, and between them two they broke all of our equipment.
Speaker 2:We are so used to this. That's why we're like we'll just keep going I don't know what it is.
Speaker 1:It's when we've had people with like this uh, some sort of like clairvoyant or or psychic medium abilities. Yeah it triggers my, my electronics, and I just don't know what happened.
Speaker 2:So if I drop off, you guys can keep going and I'll just pop in and out so what we were kind of talking about, zach, is that, um, I had watched an interview that he, um sam has actually had an attachment, so I was just asking about, oh, yeah, and this is significant because so like when you blocked out.
Speaker 3:So the the man with the hat, with the red glowing eyes yeah every time I talk about him something happens like my computer freezes. I wasn't when you, when you, kind of dropped off zach, like that was right, when I was talking about the entity that feeds off the energy and usually messes up my computers.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow Well there you go.
Speaker 1:Well, you're in good company. I know how that goes.
Speaker 2:Do you think that that's your attachment?
Speaker 3:So, yeah, so the attachment has kind of been a long like, kind of like what is it kind of thing? Yeah, the whole backstory 2016. And this is what like getting back to like I was so tours, I would do like I had written books at this point. So I was considered an expert on Salem and I loved Salem and I would give tours during Halloween season and just loved, was passionate about it. But what was happening is things were happening on my tours and there was one location that I feel like that I picked up an attachment, and this is Richard Crown and Shield. Richard Crown and Shield murdered Captain Joseph White in the 1800s, 1830. Okay, and.
Speaker 3:I would talk about Richard Crown and Shield, and I did a pretty much the night before Halloween in 2016. I did kind of like a it wasn't even a lecture, it was more like a performance where I was kind of dressed up as Richard Crown and Shield and kind of played this role of him and what happening was. What was happening is I was started to channel him and I didn't know. I had that ability at that point, so I started.
Speaker 1:What a time to find out, yeah exactly.
Speaker 3:So I basically I channeled Richard Cronenschild and I remember doing the performance and going like, oh my God, and I was getting mind pictures of the murder and he was telling me that he didn't act alone and he was innocent and like all this stuff that I was getting. And I remember looking in the mirror and like going like my face was distorted after giving that performance and, um, my, my partner at the time uh, was he was like you, you look, like you look fine, you're great, and and so, um, yeah, it just was an eight-day ordeal of having this entity that murdered somebody and kind of like taken over and I was going in and out of consciousness, um, this, yeah, this, became the um, the 100th episode of a haunting. And, um, what happened is my friend joni mayhem noticed something was wrong and you know there should have been a telltale sign. I was doing all sorts of things, like posting online, like you're, like, like I, I would like a. Um, you know, anyone have a, have a human skeleton or like a skeleton, and they're like, oh, I have a fake one and I'm like, no, I want the real one, you know, and so stuff like that, and my friend joni noticed something was wrong and she's like I think you have an attachment. I'm like what's that, joni?
Speaker 3:And that reenactment in the show was hilarious because it was all done on social.
Speaker 3:We did it online, but they reenacted it where she came to my house and was like Sam, are you okay?
Speaker 3:And, long story short, she got a shaman who did a removal and the removal did open me up, like it like so at that point I saw the entity leave my stomach, um, which was weird, and I came out and then, looking back at it, was super emotional because it was sort of like seeing like there was a lot of spirit, spirits like lined up to basically take, take this entity and bind him and wow, and I saw this as a clairvoyant and it was very powerful, life-changing and makes me grateful. It makes me like the idea of going into a location it doesn't matter if it's a performance or not like to go in and protect yourself, cause I wasn't really protecting myself and now I have a. I'm a hardcore believer in protection and, especially now that I know I can channel, I have to push it out and that's the number one rule if you're a trans channeler is you have to be able to. If you take it in, you have to push it out.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. That's so important on the protection because, first of all, I couldn't imagine seeing as a clairvoyant like what's actually going on with the shaman, because you're seeing more than most would in that situation.
Speaker 2:I can't even comprehend that.
Speaker 3:It was so fascinating. That's wild. It was fascinating. But it was also like emotional because my grandmother and I'm going to start crying. My grandmother was there and my grandmother who super Catholic, she was like with her rosary she would like like turn into this like this fierce warrior, um spirit guide, you know, and she was like like tackling this guy. It was so, it was beautiful, like I'm that's so cool, yeah and I love it and I love that my grandma, my, my nana, I call her.
Speaker 3:Uh, nana was there to protect me, that's so sweet.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. You're gonna make me cry, grandma so.
Speaker 1:So what does that look like for you now, before you're going into locations like what do you want to share, what your protection looks like, or if it's something personal, you know?
Speaker 3:it's a whole, it's a whole process. But yeah, so I do. I do what's called the crystal shield of protection and apparently, um, when I I did it on curse lizzie borden, I did it was the vagina symbol, uh, in america.
Speaker 2:So so kind of.
Speaker 3:I tinkered a little bit. I don't do the vagina symbol, but so I do a crystal shield. It's like a Reiki-based shield that I do, and I do crystal as opposed to white light, because crystal allows the good spirits in and keeps the bad ones out.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, so I do that.
Speaker 3:I have protection stones I have. I use Palo Santo a lot. I have protection stones I have. I use Palo Santo a lot. I use black salt and all sorts of things to make sure that I go in. I'm also big about closing. So when you leave a location, even if you don't think you picked anything up you could have, and I use my dominant hand and I do like a chopping behind my neck to make sure nothing's kind of like trying to hold on to me or attached to me.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's interesting. I like that. Yeah, that's cool. Cut the cord yeah, wow.
Speaker 1:A lesson we learned early on as baby podcasters and you know, kind of playing around with some demonology things we didn't know we were and we got very quick on the protection stones after things started moving around. Our spaces are being thrown at us. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely important, but I like that physical cutting of it, like wiping behind your neck before you go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's cool. I guess, aside from like doing that and like cutting the cord and things like that, are you able to like turn off your sensitivity to spirits, like is it kind of like a switch on off or not, really spirits Like, is it kind of like a switch on off or not?
Speaker 3:really that's a good question Because, like for when I first started like kind of going doing locations, I didn't know how to turn it on and off. So I was kind of being tormented by the spirits and I was actually getting hijacked. So I would walk in I was at the orphanage in Gettysburg and walk in and this whimpering child like basically took me over and I was like you know that was like, and so I was getting hijacked. Now I try my best to set boundaries and I'm like I do. I do imagine like kind of an old fashioned, fashioned lamp where I turn it on, turn it off. I've done like open, close All this is of course, a visualizing in your third eye that you're turning on and off. I also give them. So I wear like a suit normally and the suit to me lets them know that I'm ready for business, you know.
Speaker 3:And then the outfit that I wear. I also use just it's more like the like, the way that I'm dressed that to let them know that, hey, I'm ready to communicate with you yeah I've done like, um, like lemongrass and like certain um, like things I put on my hands to kind of let them know um that I'm ready to communicate. So it is, I've gotten better at it. Am I? Have I perfected it?
Speaker 1:no, but yeah, I try I imagine so much of that has to be trial and error, though it's not like.
Speaker 2:There's like a guidebook for uh and it's always like ever evolving too. So it's like, even like when people say that they're an expert, it's like, can you even be an expert in paranormal? Because it's nobody knows half of what's actually going on, which is the part that we love.
Speaker 3:But yeah, that's awesome yeah, I kind of learned the hard way and I think getting an attachment that nearly kills you is like probably the hardest way possible. But from that I did learn a lot about protection, and I didn't. That wasn't part of my arsenal back then and I, you know, now I have a group of up and coming mediums that I work with called Spirit Squad.
Speaker 3:And we, and so that I, you know, I so I'm their mentor, and it's a group of about 60 altogether to kind of go in and out of classes.
Speaker 3:Oh wow, you know I, so I'm their mentor and it's a group of about 60 altogether to kind of go in and out of classes, and so the spirit squad is really like I learned with them. So that's like the number one question how do you turn this off? Like, once we turn it on, how do you turn it off? And we're still learning, but we're, we're getting there.
Speaker 1:That's so cool, though, because, like you know, you've obviously had to learn some of those lessons the hard way, but then to be able to teach up to 60 other mediums how to do it like that is such a impactful way and you're saving them from. God only knows what you know.
Speaker 3:You know it's, it's, it's, so it's amazing and I, having gone through what I went through, I remember thinking I really need a mentor, like I really need someone to help me with this. And the closest person that I worked with her name's Joni Mahan and she she's the one that saved me when I had the attachment. She also she's a fellow author as well, so she did act as my, as my mentor, but it was literally trial by error and and I made so many mistakes and now I can help my students kind of walk through stuff that I've already been through and we just did shadow work, which is kind of known for witches to do shadow work, but we did it. We kind of combined multiple face and shamanism and we looked at just sort of like doing it and embracing your inner child, and it was super beautiful.
Speaker 3:And I loved working with Spirit Squad and I love going to locations. We're going to the SK Pierce Victorian Mansion together and going with a different approach to investigating. It's not all about the bells and whistles that we all know from All the different ghost hunting devices. We use our senses and we use dowsing rods and we use I do a Samonts, which is sort of a tweaked version of a seance I love that the sam on?
Speaker 1:that's amazing. Do you take on more that? I know you have 60 right now, which is a lot, but if people are interested, if there's, you know, in case anybody is out there. They're a budding young medium. Are you taking on more students? So?
Speaker 3:I the way that spirit squad works.
Speaker 3:It's sort of like taking on people that I connect with, so I travel all over the country like I connected with you guys in michigan and yeah like something kind of just like pulls me to them and I'm like, hey, I have this group called spirit squad, uh, and so it's been kind of by attraction. So I don't really promote it, but I do take on new students. I have a whole segment coming up in July where it's a monthly Zoom meeting that we're meeting and that's starting. July 28th is the first day and it's going to be a monthly session of Spirit Squad. Normally we do five classes in a row and it's really intensive. So I just want to kind of tone it down a little bit and just do a monthly session of spirit squad. Normally we do, uh, five classes in a row and it's really intensive.
Speaker 3:So I just want to kind of kind of tone it down a little bit and just do a monthly. So, yes, we're taking on new students, uh, and if you want to sign up, you're definitely. I would love to have have both of you, really, oh that would be fun.
Speaker 2:Zach and I are very uh vibe people yes, so we understand where you're coming from. On that, I we have to, just because we just talked about it. So we met you at uh michigan paracon in 23 yes, I think so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was like two years ago. Yeah, yes, and um, how, I don't know how it's already been two years, but I don't know, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2:but that was the funniest, if I don't know. If you remember, like zach and I do, because it was just so funny the way that we met you, zach, you well, we'll keep a pg for the podcast, but there was a crystal that had gone missing. That, uh, we all had a good laugh about actually told this story when we did our recap of michigan paracon that year we might have already outed you on that one because it was so funny.
Speaker 1:The best part is my mom was getting her palm read two tables down from us and at one point the reader looked up and because we're? We're all dying laughing and we're with her dad and goes do you need me to tell those people down there to quiet down? And she goes no, that's my family, they're just being weirdos.
Speaker 2:She's like no, they're fine. Oh my goodness, no, that was so much fun. And then Zach was like yeah, I didn't even realize, Was it that same day or the day before.
Speaker 1:You were like outside like smoking with him and you're like, yeah, I just talked to this really cool guy out there. We didn't even know who you were. I think that the same. I think that was. Yeah, I think it was the day before you presented, because you were wearing your suit and we had like a quick conversation. Then you come out on stage. I'm like, oh my gosh, that's who I was just chatting with outside. But that's the cool thing about paracon is there's so many people yeah.
Speaker 3:so I remember your shirt, zach like oh, I like this shirt, and so like, little things like that attract me. You know like I'm like oh, I like Zach's shirt. And so we started talking and then you're like I'm like I like your shirt and you're like okay.
Speaker 1:That was early days of podcasting too. Where I was, I was so introverted still I'm like I don't know how to have a conversation. So thankfully with podcasting I've become a little bit more extroverted.
Speaker 2:I can hold the conversation Well and, to be fair, zach, you have had. You had so many people that day coming up to you and telling you that you, like, they liked your shirt and like we're just not that used to that many people like that is. It's a lot of people that are at these conventions and it is like overwhelming at a certain point, like you love it like you're meeting people, you're having great conversations, it's fun, but you're kind of like drained at a certain point.
Speaker 2:I can only imagine how you are, because zach and I are like, at the end of the day, we are like my battery is dead. So I'm just trying to give you some credit.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're good. That's a great point. First of all, this is why Kara dresses me, because I have no. She bought me this shirt too, but with that, though, sam, is that, how does it feel for you having the abilities that you have?
Speaker 3:It's like an attachment swap. You go in, that's why I keep going outside. People are like, why are you always outside? Because I have to ground, because it's so, so much energy around you. And if you and that's a big part of spirit squad is, how do you deal with those types of situations? So what? Like yeah, so when, when I saw, when I saw you, I'm like he's dealing with the energy, like what it's it's.
Speaker 3:It's pretty common with people that are sensitive yeah you can't deal with the energy and you're trying to process it and you're kind of like trying to protect your energy and it's, it's so.
Speaker 2:It's that's why, like the others, like people, like like me, and like you guys, like hang outside just to get away from all that energy and that's so funny that you say that because we go outside, almost like every lecture we would be done with, we'd go outside in between like halls, we'd go outside and I usually like sit on the ground, like I'll just be, like, let me just touch the grass, let me touch the ground, let me just be here for a little bit and then we can head back in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you definitely feel it at those kind of conventions.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's, it's you. You know it's pretty much grounding. Whatever you have to do to ground uh, like like I recommend it, like sitting on the grass, that's perfect, like that, like stuff like that. Um, I've, I've taken off my shoes, you know, like just you gotta, you gotta just go out there and get you know, kind of bring it back and then kind of go back in and talk to the, to the crowds. But I'll tell you like the conversations I had outside were like amazing.
Speaker 2:I loved it oh well, and it's. It's so cool because, um, kind of like we were just talking about before, like when you're like you kind of wanted to keep this part of you like kind of a little bit quiet, like you didn't want to talk about it. But now, look at it, it's like crazy. It's like so many people love this stuff and they come to like see you talk and they want to be with other people that are like weirdos or little oddballs, like we all kind of love it now. So it's just so much more welcoming to be weird nowadays, which has to be so great.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I, I, I love the convention. So I kind of kind of like a love hate thing. I love that because of that, because I do feel so welcomed and I feel like that I'm with my people. But then also you go in and it's just like everyone's all the energy is just like yeah, and you want to run out so that year you talked about oh, I knew you were going to ask about uh, puck wedgie.
Speaker 3:Your experience with puck wedgie uh, yeah, so the tell us yeah, the lecture was monstersers of the Paranormal.
Speaker 3:And at the time I did a lecture with a demonologist and so we discussed it. So my idea of monsters were, you know, paranormal monsters. So thoughtful manifestations are things that we create. As one of the monsters that I talked about, pukwudgies, which is a pretty common little critter, um, in new england, that's elemental in nature. Uh, that that we've encountered, and even just you know, like in um, chris and lizzie borden were out in the woods which was the bridgewater triangle, and we had all sorts of like elemental energies surrounding us, uh, while we were filming that. Uh, that you like I have. So I have a lot of experience with elementals, especially, and Pukwudgies. You know like what are they? They're Native American cryptids, elementals. They seem like that they're cute, but they're not. Like they can literally lure you to your death, you know so.
Speaker 2:I did an episode about them because I think they're cute, but they're not like. They can literally lure you to your death, you know. So I did an episode about them because I think they are cute, but they're like little shits. And it's so funny because it's like little cute things, like you just said, luring you to your death and I don't know why. I just get a kick out of that. It's not good, but but like. So what was your experience with? Did you see it or feel it, or how do you like?
Speaker 3:So let's put it this way, I have students and friends who have experienced them. I haven't personally seen a Pukwudgie. So even in the lecture we had a photo of one of my students her name's Sue that captured a Pukwudgie outside of the Oliver House, which is a location that I investigated a lot and that's also on the edge of the Bridgewater Triangle in Massachusetts, and unfortunately that location recently closed and now has turned into an office space. But that land has a lot of Pukwudgie sightings and I think we kind of see what we can handle. So I think some people may see Pukwudgies and I may see, like you know, something else, you know as a clairvoyant so I do and I think that they shape shift, so they can kind of appear to certain people and then disappear.
Speaker 3:But I but I have, I would say I have experienced the energy of a Pukwudgie and so I do, I do believe they exist. Just think that, like, if I, if I saw one, I probably would flip out, I probably I really would. Oh, my god, um, I don't know who wouldn't, and other people have seen them like, oh, they're like, oh, you know, I saw a puck wedgie and I'm like, really like I would, I would literally have a nervous breakdown if I saw a puck wedgie. So I think that they know that and they kind of like they, um and I, we picked up evps of what sounds like a puck wedgie. So I think that they know that and they kind of like they, um and I, we picked up evps of what sounds like a puck wedgie. You know like what?
Speaker 1:it's kind of like a animalistic, primal, uh noise that they make, and so I I know that I've experienced them, but I just have not seen them so funny still that you've probably just made carol's entire day with that one, because she is in love with that I just think that that's so funny, these little, cute little shits.
Speaker 2:I don't know?
Speaker 3:Yeah, they are.
Speaker 2:Little terrors.
Speaker 3:That shoot darts. Well, some of them shoot darts.
Speaker 2:Yes, those little darts. I don't know. I get a kick out of this, I really do. But seriously, if I saw one, I'd be like you. I'd be screaming and probably running, but the story of them is cool to me.
Speaker 3:And really what they're doing is they're protecting the land, and so they've almost kind of been given a bum rap. Like they first started, they were like helpers and they helped the Native American spirits and protected the land, and what happened is they were demonized by settlers, like coming into Massachusetts and the other parts of new england, and so now they're like little like the devils they've been called and and truthfully I think that they're a little bit of both. They kind of can go both ways.
Speaker 2:I just don't mess with the puck wedgie, you know, I kind of take it back. I would probably be scared if I saw one, but I would really want it to just be my friend I have.
Speaker 3:So I have. I have a friend who's who wanted a puck wedgie as a pet and I don't know if a pet, oh god, like she would have it and I'm like, what is with you? And she's like. He's like oh, it's my puck wedgie, and I'm like, and she like it's my friend and like, and she gave it a name and everything but actually I.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't put it past me, though, either. That's why zach's laughing, because he's like she probably wouldn't want to fuck with a couple miller lights?
Speaker 1:yeah, you would take a puck, would you home as a pet? I would. So paranormal monsters that you have experienced, is there one that kind of stands out to you is like, uh, could be good, could be bad, like a, just a changing experience for you?
Speaker 3:yeah, in the like in the lecture. So I did. I did talk about, uh so thought form manifestations in salem. So the man with a hat is is considered almost like a monster. Uh, but I personally think that my experience with a man with a hat with red, glowing eyes is um, is a family member and so like it is more of a harbinger and that that um relationship with him has kind of changed over the years. But when I first saw him it was terrifying and then yeah, so like I'm like that one is a big one for me is the is the man with the hat and um and it's. You can't say hat man because hat man is trademarked.
Speaker 2:But you said that your sister was there when you saw it. Did she also see it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, am I freezing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I can still hear you, we can. Oh, oh, do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do, oh, ah, You're coming back. You're like half back.
Speaker 3:All right, this is so. I told you guys that.
Speaker 2:It's okay, we get it.
Speaker 1:It was right when we talked about the man with the hat.
Speaker 2:again, though, Wait you're right, oh crap, let's stop talking about it.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it really does do that, is it? Okay, it's not coming, hold on.
Speaker 1:I may have to get rid of my microphone and the other thing too, as you don't shut off your computer.
Speaker 3:Okay, I'm going to try doing that, guys, and we'll talk more about the man with the hat. Perfect, I don't know if we should.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, that's wild. That is you guys listeners. That was instantaneous Both times that we just talked about that. That's crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, and typically okay, typically okay. You know what my camera recording it almost seems to. Every time we have a guest do something wonky, but being that that's the first time we've had it happen to somebody else when we're talking about the same subject that interacts with his well, and he said it was gonna happen.
Speaker 2:Because it does happen and it happened again so we shouldn't have, we shouldn't have brought it up again oh gosh, okay, it looks like sam's coming back in you're back, I'm back.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so you're probably right. Like every time I talk about that entity, it does set everything down, so I'm not surprised all right.
Speaker 2:Well, I just wanted to know if your sister also saw that she, she did.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we talked about it later in life. Yes, she did did, and we're not going to say the name.
Speaker 2:We can just see that we can move on from this subject.
Speaker 1:He obviously does not want us talking about it.
Speaker 2:OK, it is my favorite thing that you are snorting, because I snort when I laugh and I try so hard not to do it too much on the podcast because, like I know you can because you're a guest, but Zach has to edit all of my sniffles and my annoying stuff.
Speaker 1:It's not the snorting while laughing, it is the sniffling in every break of her sentence that I get to edit out. But I love her anyway.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ok, ok. So enough about the monsters, let's, let's make sure the technology still works, though.
Speaker 2:Oh goodness.
Speaker 1:But, like, obviously you get to investigate a lot of places and you've written about a lot of them. Is there one that's on your bucket list that you haven't gotten to yet or you know might be in the works?
Speaker 3:yeah, so. So I always say queen mary and california because I I I have visited it, but I haven't gone in uh as a paranormal investigator. I'm actually going to uh san francisco, so I'm gonna this coming up season, so I'm gonna go on the west coast and the goal is to go to alcatraz and also go to the queen mary, if I can that would be awesome.
Speaker 3:We want to go to the queen mary, oh yeah, so I can't wait to go and the event is going to be on the uss hornet oh, right outside of san francisco, and um, just really excited about that, and then hopefully we'll make a trek down to the queen mary, which is about a four hour drive, but I think it would be worth it I would say I think it's so worth it that'll be fun.
Speaker 2:What's your favorite place that you've gone so far?
Speaker 3:um, so I really love a place called broadhead manor and, uh, and that's in wisconsin oh and I'm going back there for the Paranormal Rockdown coming up this summer in July and something about the energy there. So you like Pukwudgies. There's a lot of elemental energy similar to Pukwudgies at this property. In addition to it was an old school. So just the energy, the Native American backstory to the land.
Speaker 3:Last time I was there we did sort of like a drumming circle to honor the land and the spirits of the land and it was so beautiful and we had in the drumming circle there were dragonflies that were kind of circling us in the field right near where there was a Native American burial ground.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's cool.
Speaker 3:So I just I love it.
Speaker 2:I can't wait to go back where in wisconsin is that at it's?
Speaker 3:so it's, it's broadhead and it's right. It's definitely more southern, so it's close to chicago. My, my, um, my family is like my brothers and are in chicago, so it was I was able to see my little brother, joey, so oh, that's cool.
Speaker 2:I used to live in wisconsin for a little bit, that's. I was wondering like where? I've never heard of that cool.
Speaker 3:We'll have to check out really small, like it's like a really small town that I think that there may be like population of like 100 or so, like it's really wow.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's cool. Those are the best though.
Speaker 1:So Paranormal Lockdown, is it like kind of a smaller event locked in sort of deal, or is it a bigger?
Speaker 3:Oh, so it's Rockdown.
Speaker 2:Oh Rockdown. No, we probably heard it wrong.
Speaker 3:Yeah, paranormal Lockdown, and there's going to be performances there this year as well. So the rock bands coupled with Paranormal oh that's fun.
Speaker 1:Oh, that sounds amazing. Yeah, paranormal, oh that sounds amazing yeah, you guys should go.
Speaker 3:I would. I would love that when, honestly, wisconsin's not too far. Yeah, so it's in july. It's in july, okay, and it's the second weekend in july, so I can send you guys information oh yeah, do that. That'd be fun, I think you both would really like it and it would be a great great place for um like doing your podcast, meeting new people yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, we'll have to check that out. That'll be fun. Yeah, it's not far from us.
Speaker 1:Especially now that Michigan Paracon is gone. You know we're looking for a new home base.
Speaker 2:Ay yi yi.
Speaker 1:I was going to say is there anything that you want to share that we haven't talked about yet?
Speaker 2:Oh well, anything that Do you well, do you want to talk about lizzie?
Speaker 3:yeah, I mean, of course we could talk about her, so that the reason why I was a little wary of talking about her, I mean every time like it, like what happened at the very beginning.
Speaker 3:So when I do bring her up, um, as long as um, I honor her spirit, I think that it's okay you know, as long as I'm respectful, um, I don't think I've ever like with her, like when I first started investigating, uh, the case uh, this is years before filming curse of lizzie borden uh, with dave schrader and chris fleming, um, but I would, I would. Basically, I viewed her kind of like with as a caricature, like as a cold-blooded killer, and that's before I found that I was related to her and so, like, now that I know that we're connected, my mom did genealogical research While I was writing one of, like, several of my books that were related to the case. She, she's like Sam, I think we're related, and so she was able to prove that we're related to Lizzie Borden, that's so wild.
Speaker 3:Turned my life upside down and I'm like you know what, now that I know that she is a relative, I'm definitely more empathetic toward her, almost where I'm super protective and yeah so I, um, really I want to tell her story and tell her story correctly, and I did promise that to her.
Speaker 3:Uh, and almost, if I can, if I couldn't exonerate her, I would love that. I would love to be able to exonerate lizzie. Lizzie liz beth was what. The way she likes to be able to exonerate Lizzie Liz Beth was the way she likes to be referred to. People know her as Lizzie but I call her Liz Beth. If I'm having a conversation with my distant cousin, I'm like Liz Beth. Liz Beth, she likes being called Liz Beth.
Speaker 2:Oh, good to know, because we don't want to upset her and it's wild because, yeah, I can't imagine then finding out that you're distantly related to her. That would be like, like you said, it would turn your life upside down. That's always been one of those cases that I I've told Zach this. It's one of those cases. I don't know why it like is so well, it's very fascinating to a lot of people, right? So it was always been fascinating to me because of, like, the stupid nursery rhymes, the songs and whatever. But it's just one of those weird cases.
Speaker 2:And I love true crime, I love listening to it and hearing about it, but I don't know what it is with her case. That is something's just like really not set right with me. Like it's just something where I'm like there's just something ain't right there, like I don't know what it is, I don't. I don't even know how to articulate what I'm saying, but I've told Zach this. Like it just feels like it's something's not right, like the story is not being told right, like I don't know. Again, I don't know how to articulate it, but it's just one of those cases that it's like it's very strange to me and I'm sure you can relate.
Speaker 3:I can relate to it and so I have looked at this case in every possible way. So when I first started I was scared I would have these recurring dreams and I didn't know what they were and what they were trying to tell me. And a lot of times spirit communication came through my dreams early on as a clear point. So I had this dream, a recurring dream, where I'm in the house, the murder house. I see Andrew Borden on the couch, kind of lounging over. I see what I guess would be Lizzie Borden, like standing behind him holding an axe.
Speaker 3:And I remember seeing the wallpaper. The wallpaper to me was super significant because I kept focusing on the wallpaper and then it was black and white and there was a man behind her, almost like a puppet master, with nefarious looking, with a hat, with like, with a, like a, with a mustache, and there was subtitles that that were kind of going on while the action was unfolding and it said diablo did it, diablo did it and Diablo did it. And I would wake up like that and to me that was a code of some sort.
Speaker 3:And Was she under the influence of a spirit or like an attachment, and having had an attachment myself, that is possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know.
Speaker 3:And so I came in with a different perspective, if you will. And there's also the idea that maybe there was some sort of assault that made her snap and that would make sense like a disassociated snap.
Speaker 3:But I will say, having investigated the case over and over again, there's almost like a splinter personality of Lizzie and I call her Crazy Lizzie that I pick up at the murder house. So when I'm interacting with Lizzie and I'm kind of doing air quotes, again, um, it's, it's crazy lizzie. It's a different, like the voice when I hear is that she's crazy, she's crazy, um, and I hear, hear that in my ear while I'm in the house and it turns out like that actually is what? Um, during um the show, one of the shows that Amy Allen she was in the house and I didn't see this until years later, but she had a very similar impression of that entity that's in the house. That's assuming Lizzie's identity, but it crawls in the vents. It's really creepy. But yeah, I do feel that in the dream either it was an entity that took her over and she was involved, or there was maybe a John Morris who was her uncle, has been someone that's been accused of being sort of like the puppet master, if you will.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and he was creepy. I mean even pictures and just knowing his backstory. There was something wasn't right with him, something weird. Yeah, he was a little off, but he had an alibi that was creepy. I mean like even pictures and just knowing his backstory there was something wasn't right with him, something weird.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was a little off.
Speaker 3:But he had an alibi that was solid, Like he was walking to another family member's home the day of the murder, the morning of the murder, and so he had a really firm alibi. But his alibi was like creepily, like he knew everybody he talked to along the way and that was weird.
Speaker 2:It was too calculated. Yeah, creepily like he knew everybody he talked to along the way and that it was calculated yeah okay on the john moore subject, though.
Speaker 1:So when I was looking into it, everything said that he was going to buy ox, but I never heard anything about him bringing home ox. Or is that just like a wikipedia effect? That was completely wrong yeah, I think.
Speaker 3:Oh, so I mean from my research, he was visiting a fellow like a family member.
Speaker 3:Um, okay, and he, he did, he was a butcher and so like that's another thing, like he was a butcher you know that's right, and there was and that's something that people don't know like he actually was an apprentice working, like he chopped up meat, you know, and and that I don't know. Like that's that's a red flag right there. Uh, he came the night before the murders, uh, and like, and he kind of just popped up in the house like hey, I'm here, and he, instead of staying in the usual room, which was on the, the third floor, right right next to where bridget sullivan stayed, uh, he stayed on the second floor, uh, and and the, the, what is now called the john morse room, and that's where abby borden was was murdered, so that even the room that he chose to stay in was odd, uh, for for him. Oh, and also this is another weird fact the night after abby was brutally butchered in the in the second floor room, he stayed in the same room the night of the murder.
Speaker 1:And yeah, that the whole family staying even in the house was I feel like strange enough.
Speaker 2:But yeah, to stay in the exact room that's that's yeah, that takes a character yeah, yeah I would imagine, though, that people going and visiting the house now kind of like what you were saying, like like quotes, crazy lizzie, like some things, like almost like imitating her I would imagine that Lizzie probably is not there I mean maybe, but there's so much energy that has gone through that house and it is such a tragic site, or like home, like I can't imagine that you're I mean everybody that's going there is with the intent of talking to something evil, or her, or you know what I mean, like I don't know, like kind of like a thought form, like you were saying, or Egregore, or something like that. Like I can't imagine that Lizzie's just still chilling in that house, unless, for whatever reason, she's trapped. I don't think that people are really talking to her, do you?
Speaker 3:No, I mean, like that's my, that's my theory as well. I feel like that I did. I had the conversation with her, so I feel like that she feels the most comfortable at Maplecroft, which is her later in life home, and then we also investigated that location for her. But I told her I'm like I will never call you back to this house, but can you please, you know, for while we're filming the show, make an appearance. It was almost so. We did the seance at the end of the show and she was in the room. So when we say Lizzieance at the end of the show, and she was in the room. So when we say Lizzie's in the room, she was. So I think we were able to call her there for that case. But that was to help the children and help Eliza Borden and other family members and I'm going to get emotional because she was kind of apprehensive to join. Oh, I have goosebumps.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but she participated, participated as she, she, um, even in the afterlife she's a loving person. I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't think she did it.
Speaker 3:And if she did it, I don't think it was no, I just don't think she did it I mean I will say, like my, my interaction with her, um, she doesn't like being called back to the murder house. I told her I would never call her back again and I have it, uh, and and so I, um, and people that do, I, I I'm really um, I try my best to like, spread the word like she does not want to go back. No, uh, like, so stop trying to do evps. Talk to lizzie.
Speaker 3:Another person that I feel is victimized in the afterlife is andrew borden, who was the father. Now, was he kind of a questionable person? Yes, I mean, he was a penny pincher, but he was a man in 1892 who, um was wealthy. You know he probably had ways about him that would not translate well in modern times, but he was not like a demon. You know, he like he's now being portrayed in this really dark way and I don't think that that's andrew borden that they're interacting with. It's something else. It's like an egregore thought form, just like crazy Lizzie.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I even like, when I refer to this splinter, I don't know if it ever belonged to Lizzie. I mean, my theory is that maybe, like during the murders or even before that, if there was a sexual, sexual assault, that it somehow psychically imprinted itself like in the property. But I do think that, um, it's assuming the role, and yeah, and I do, and I do feel that, um, that lizzie doesn't like being called back there and I and I and I have I've been good on my word, I haven't called her back I know she appreciates that, so she needs to stop screaming at you.
Speaker 1:I love it. You almost get to be like an advocate for people who have been misrepresented like that.
Speaker 3:It's one thing to do that for the living, but it's such a way too Like I feel like that. That's my role as a family member is to advocate for the family members who have passed and I have some questionable. I mean, it's not just Lizzie Borden, we're related to Eileen Wuornos.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's right. I forgot you were, that's so wild.
Speaker 3:And that was found, that we did, like my mother, like she brought me to Lizzie Borden and to the Putnam family who were major accusers in the Salem Witch Trials.
Speaker 3:But then the producers on the show. They dug even deeper and it was crazy, the people that Eileen warned us there was also. Marilyn Monroe is someone that's connected to us as well and I feel very, very connected to her, and when I go to California, I would love to you know, like, because, like the DNA evidence that was found was fairly recent, so we're able to use DNA to prove that she actually who her father was, who was she's a Gifford, who's connected to our family as well. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:It's so interesting what we're able to do with all the DNA.
Speaker 2:I just did my DNA and I got shit. I got nothing and you have everybody. I'm so jealous.
Speaker 3:A lot of it too Like so, for example, marilyn, like we didn't know who her biological father was. So what we had to do was we had to use Ancestrycom which is what my mom used coupled with forensic for DNA and so like so it didn't just pop up on the when you do the DNA.
Speaker 2:You had to like.
Speaker 3:You had to like yeah, to dig in, and now that we know um maryland's biological uh father, we know that she's also maryland's related to lizzie too, which is oh that's that's very new.
Speaker 2:That's very new. Oh wow, that's cool. Okay, so I'm sure we're all. How long have we been going? I'm sure we want to wrap this up. Okay, I guess my final question, unless you have anything else to tell us, is, now that we've just started talking about, like, terrible people that you happen to be related to, some, some paranormal aspects and some you know murderers not Lizzie, but you know would you say that you're more afraid of people or the paranormal. Like who's the true monsters, would you say?
Speaker 3:Well, especially in the case of my family members, if you really look and the way that you worded it before, that there was something not right about the Lizzie Borden case. I think that the people that control the narrative on her case, sort of like controls how we view her in the modern day, and those, those are the people that are evil to me, the ones, the ones that, um, manipulate the truth to make it make them look better, whether it's, uh, you know, like sort of like a patriarchal approach to women, um, so, yeah, the ones that try to control the narrative uh, really are evil in my opinion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I, uh, there's a lot of paranormal stuff that's very scary out there. But I tell zach all the time I'm more afraid of people, yeah I think they're the bigger monsters in this world than the paranormal okay, I've got one final one for you too, sam.
Speaker 1:Is so family or not right with being able to be an advocate in such a different way? Is there anybody else who you think is misrepresented and you might want to have a chance to clear a name?
Speaker 3:yeah, so I really. The next steps for me is I want to really look at um, like do like a project called called exonerated, where I can kind of like maybe go in and look at cases that are similar to the Borden murders in 1892.
Speaker 3:And so, yeah, I mean the Salem Witch Trials is another case that's really near and dear to my heart my distant cousin, ann Putnam Jr, who was one of the afflicted girls. She was 12 years old during the Salem Witch Trials and she's the only one of the afflicted girls that uh apologized so and she was shunned from the community. Now do I think that she did a horrible, horrible thing, absolutely uh, but I also think that she was a child that was being manipulated by her father, yeah, and uh, and so a lot of what she she accused more than 60 people, like 62 people, of witchcraft and a lot of the ones that she accused were executed. So Ann Putnam is someone I would like to revisit, but she was 12.
Speaker 3:Even Eileen Wuornos, I mean, I know that she is guilty, but I also feel that there was other stuff going on there, definitely mental illness stuff going on there, and so I'm interested in like looking at my family members but maybe taking it a step beyond, uh, and like re-looking at cases, uh, and hopefully like with a new lens. Oh, another case that's really like on my plate of interest is the pendle witches and um and lancaster, the in england, uh, overseas, and I would love to go there and um the pendle witches were very similar to the salem witch trials but it was 60 years. It was in the um 8, 16, 29 or 16, 19 when the when the the pendle witches were accused and executed oh wow.
Speaker 1:This is how you can tell he's a real researcher, because you have all these years right in your brain and then there's us who put our episodes together. We're like wait. What did I say? 10 minutes ago.
Speaker 3:Well, I mean the, the years of the pendle witches, so it was 80 years before the salem witch trials was 1692, so actually it was 1612. So I have to make sure I get the right, the year correct. But yeah, like, and that's how I, that's how I remember it. What was the difference in years? What's interesting about Salem West Trials was 1692. The Borden Riders was in 1892. And I probably wouldn't remember that year, except where it was exactly 200 years apart.
Speaker 2:That makes it easier.
Speaker 1:You're giving us all your tricks now.
Speaker 2:Wow, well, this was so much fun.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I mean starts with spectral screaming. We've had a couple interruptions along the way.
Speaker 3:I love it, I know.
Speaker 1:I've learned some more. So, no, this has been incredible, sam, for anybody who needs to find more information about you, if they want to pick up some of the books or check out anything online or the documentaries what's the best way for people to find you?
Speaker 3:I highly recommend going to my website sambaltrusiscom. It's B-A-L-T-R-U-S-I-Scom Currently working on books, and you can find them all on Amazon and your local bookstores. Highly recommend going to a bookstore, if you can to get my books. Another thing that I'm working on too so'm working on the haunted castles of new england. I'm doing an anthology called called haunted travels anthology that's coming out this summer and I'm bringing that to uh, an event near you, uh, and hopefully you guys will be able to support the paranormal writing community, or ghost writers as they call them yeah, no awesome ghost writers?
Speaker 1:fantastic yeah, and we'll make sure that the website is linked down in the show notes, so anybody listening, just one click away.
Speaker 2:You were also just in haunted mag, right?
Speaker 3:yeah, so I I regularly contribute to haunted magazine and I love, I love that publication because it's so diverse. It's actually um, it's produced in the uk, uh so, but it's cool because a lot of the stories are um american stories. So we have a lot of great writers. Richard Estep is a regular, amanda Woomer is a regular, so Alex Matsuo. So a lot of people that I consider, people that I respect in the paranormal research community contribute to Haunted Magazine.
Speaker 2:Awesome. So there's a lot of ways that people can get their hands on your stuff. We love that. That people can get their hands on your stuff. We love that, okay. So one other thing that we ask is we like to leave an emoji. We have our listeners leave an emoji when we post the episode stuff. So what emoji would you like to be left for your episode?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, my first response thought was it was an axe.
Speaker 2:But Okay, I was gonna say maybe, maybe a book, because you have a lot of books, but I don't want to be known for the axe.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I mean maybe like so ghost writers, or maybe how about a raven? I like a raven.
Speaker 2:Oh okay, there has to be a little raven or a crow emoji.
Speaker 3:I'm sure Perfect, I like that.
Speaker 2:I love ravens, oh, and I want to crow. So bad See I would. I would take a puck.
Speaker 1:Would you? I would do it, she absolutely would. She tries to take everything as a pet. Okay, all right, sam, we'll let you get on with your night. We'll let all the little audio shop listeners get on with the night, so, kara well.
Speaker 2:We appreciate you so much, Sam, for coming. Thank you again. Like we are so incredibly grateful Listeners, we're so incredibly grateful for you. Please leave a raven, I guess a raven, a book, an axe, whatever, preferably a raven. Leave those emojis so that we know that you listened and you like this episode. We appreciate you so much, but the most important thing that you can do for us is to creep a really little oddballs.
Speaker 1:Goodbye. You got to throw us a goodbye, goodbye, perfect.
Speaker 3:We probably could have warned you thank you so much that was.
Speaker 1:That was a lot of that was fun.
Speaker 3:Thank you, I'm out.
