Oddity Shop
This podcast examines the oddities of the world...Cryptids to Conspiracies, Cults to Curiosities, Myths to Mysteries, and so much more! Stop by the shop, where the bizarre is always on sale... Each week your curators, Kara Perakovic and Zach Palmer will be opening the shop and sharing stories with you.
Oddity Shop
Uncovering the Iceman: The 5,000-Year-Old Cursed Mummy
Welcome To The Oddity Shop, Where The Bizarre is Always on Sale. This week, your curator Kara has the tale of the cursed Iceman.
Two German hikers made a startling discovery in the Ötztal Alps in 1991 that would forever change our understanding of the Copper Age—and potentially unleash a deadly curse.
This remarkably intact mummy (The Iceman) provides an unprecedented window into prehistoric life. But the story takes a darker turn when we examine what happened after Ötzi's discovery. Seven people connected to the Iceman have met untimely deaths—from car accidents and avalanches to rare diseases. Most chilling of all, the rescue team leader who recovered Simon's body suffered a fatal heart attack at Simon's funeral.
Could these deaths represent a modern manifestation of an ancient protective curse? Or simply coincidence magnified by our human tendency to find patterns? Join us as we examine the evidence, explore the science of natural mummification, and contemplate whether some historical discoveries are better left undisturbed.
References:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tztal_Alps
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%96tzi
- https://www.iceman.it/en/the-iceman/
- https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/otzi-the-iceman/
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummy
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catacombe_dei_Cappuccini
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalcolithic
- https://www.ripleys.com/stories/the-curse-of-otzi-the-iceman
- https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/paranormal/creatures-and-monsters/the-curse-of-otzi-the-iceman.html
- https://hungrygen.com/typesofcurses/
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I want to dance with the mothman at the ID shop, Baked in the moonlight at the ID shop. Creep through the graveyard to the ID shop. The door's always open at the Oddity Shop. What's up, Oddballs? Welcome back to the Oddity Shop, the podcast, where the bizarre is always on sale and we're bringing you creepy stories from around the globe. I only said creepy. You only get one adjective today, Cara. How the hell are you Wow?
Speaker 2:you are a little sleepy boy. I am doing fabulous, other than you being a sleepy boy. How are you? I'm good.
Speaker 1:We made the mistake of scheduling a live paranormal investigation the same night that the time change happened, and I just haven't recovered since.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's talk about that. So this is our first episode since we went live at Eloise, which was so much fun.
Speaker 1:Oh my.
Speaker 2:God and we have so many new friends.
Speaker 1:New friends, living and dead. One of them tried to pull off my pants. I'll let you, you guys, decide if that was somebody living or dead.
Speaker 2:They also tried to pull your hoodie too. They were trying to take all your clothes off.
Speaker 1:Apparently so. They may have been mad, though, because I took a picture in their shower and they're like get authentic then.
Speaker 2:You took a picture in their shower. You took a picture at their sink. You took a picture on their toilet. I was getting ready. Okay, you took more pictures than I did which is rare, rare speaking of that, I have to send you one of the pictures that I did take, because I look demented and it's I. I was gonna delete it, but it's like you got to see it okay, send it to me.
Speaker 1:Um, but we had, but it was really fun and if you guys watched, yes, thank you for watching. Uh, just a couple weeks, so a week, week and a half away from our event over at eloise where you guys could join us.
Speaker 2:So um, yeah, no, it was so much fun, so afterwards we were able to do a little bit of, you know, a little investigation, a little bit of an exploration for gosh, I don't even know, like an hour maybe yeah, about an hour something like. Like that, it was really fun. We got a lot of cool stuff.
Speaker 1:I know I love that place. I am just so in love with that place.
Speaker 2:I am so in love with that place and they're so in love with me.
Speaker 1:The spirits on the Estus Method do like you.
Speaker 2:They be loving me, so be jealous. People are like dead. People love you. That's great, it is great.
Speaker 1:You're pretty great. What else has been going on?
Speaker 2:I feel like that was a big thing. I feel like that was it?
Speaker 1:That's been it. I'm about to have a really fun. I'm excited to see Dixon Dallas this weekend Really tomorrow for me.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy for you.
Speaker 1:You should have came with. No, I'm good.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I'm so happy for you you should have came with, but I get it Good, thank you, I don't want to.
Speaker 1:Fair, it's going to be very happy for you and Julia. Nice. What else is new with you?
Speaker 2:You already asked that Nothing.
Speaker 1:Okay, well then open up this damn shop. Ask me a question.
Speaker 2:So my question is very different than we normally do, but I think that we need to just woosah and reflect. And can you believe our lives? That's my question. I mean no, yeah, no, you cannot. We have been so geeked.
Speaker 1:I mean, we've had a lot of new opportunities, but I've been manifesting this for years. You've been manifesting this, so we better say we believe our lives because we've been making this shit happen.
Speaker 2:I still can't believe it though.
Speaker 1:I know We've had like so many fun investigations. We have a lot of really fun guests coming that we have on the books. Like this is going to be. This is going to be a good year, guys. We have some other surprises for you too, so stick around with us.
Speaker 2:Yes too, so stick around with us. Yes, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, that was my question.
Speaker 2:That was the question. Well, yeah, you did not give me what I was expecting, but okay, all right, what do we?
Speaker 1:what do you got in the shop this week? Let's talk about some Alps, like the mountains Alps. What did you even say?
Speaker 2:Alps, yeah, mountains.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:What'd you think I said?
Speaker 1:I don't know, it sounded like Alps. I'm like is E-L-P something? I don't know Alps? You said it so weird. Okay, alps, let's talk about the Alps.
Speaker 2:Alps. How do you say it, alps?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the first time, though, you put your little twang on there. Let's talk about these Alps.
Speaker 2:Let's talk about the Alps.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sounds like you're saying E-L-P yes, just get on with it.
Speaker 2:I can't now Hold on. I need a sip.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, the anticipation is killing me All right.
Speaker 2:Specifically, we're talking about the probably going to say it wrong. I pronounced it on every website. Everyone says it different Otezal Alps.
Speaker 1:Never heard of them, so it sounds right to me.
Speaker 2:All right. So this is a mountain range in the central eastern Alps. It's located in the state of Tyrol in western Austria and the province of south Tyrol in northern Italy. Oh, I hear it's good for skiing so the highest points of these alps is 3 774 meters, which is 12, 8, no 12, 382 feet okay so it's the second highest mountain in austria okay, I was like I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'm not a big like mountaineering type of person. I'm not a big skier. No, I feel like I would like to climb up it until I got like 10 minutes into it. I would like to view them only 10 minutes. Can you take a gondola up? It's all uphill. If I can like ride my way to the top, I'm going you wouldn't even.
Speaker 2:I would think that you would have said at least like 15 minutes, okay, well, you know what now?
Speaker 1:I'm gonna say 20 just to spite you all, right, well, moving towards going, you wouldn't even. I would think that you would have said at least like 15 minutes, okay.
Speaker 2:Well, you know what? Now I'm going to say 20, just to spite you, all right? Well, moving towards something seemingly unrelated mummies. A mummy is a dead human or an animal whose soft tissues and organs have been preserved by either intentional or accidental exposure to chemicals, extreme cold, very low humidity or lack of air, so that the recovered body does not decay further if kept in cool and dry conditions. How are you feeling?
Speaker 1:I'm glad you gave me a description because or a definition there, because I didn't know now if it was a southern twang thing like the Alps, or if this was like a British For mommy. I'm just all confused. I hate you.
Speaker 2:Oh, man'm just all confused.
Speaker 1:I hate you oh man, not as much as I hate stop recording I'm quitting you, can't sorry, dude. We got too much shit coming, did you not? So anthropogenic?
Speaker 2:mummies were deliberately created by the living for a number of reasons, and obviously the most common being religious Right. So spontaneous mummies were created unintentionally due to natural conditions such as extremely dry heat or cold, acidic and anaerobic conditions anaerobic thank you very much, and let's all just give a hand to wikipedia for my help.
Speaker 1:Thank you, uh, okay, so most money I never get a hand for all the words.
Speaker 2:I help you with yes, I do. I always thank you. Where was I the other day? And I couldn't say something and in my head I was like where the hell is, zachary? I was about to call you and be like what am I trying to say? Most mummies belong to those two categories and that's kind of all we're getting into, okay, okay, that's all today, folks. Okay, now, the most common mummies that we most likely think of are of Egyptian descent, mephiveret. The preservation of the dead had a profound effect on ancient Egypt religion, so mummification was an integral part of the rituals for the dead, beginning as early as the second dynasty. So, egyptians, what, do you know? What?
Speaker 1:year that is.
Speaker 2:About 2800 BC.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, okay Wow.
Speaker 2:Okay. So Egyptians saw the preservation of the body after death as an important step to the living into the afterlife, which I feel like we kind of all somewhat know. That, yeah, it kind of like prepares the soul Yep so that you can continue on into know that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it kind of like prepares the soul and the vessel and everything Yep, so that you can continue on into the afterlife.
Speaker 2:Now, egyptian mummification is basically ranked in class and I do plan to do a whole entire episode on that, because I just love the process of Egyptian mummification, but we're also not doing that today. Folks, let's move on to Italy. Mummies, the varied geographic Lord, have mercy.
Speaker 1:Wait real quick before you do this I know um italian mummies when they do the hands, do they do it in the typical italian fashion, like all four or five fingertips together, you know they should okay, I hope they do we're probably offending everybody.
Speaker 2:Probably, um, okay, so the varied geography and climatology of Italy has led to many cases of spontaneous mummification. Italian mummies display the same diversity with a. I can't say this word, you guys. You jinxed me because I had this all conglomeration of natural and intentional mummification spread across many centuries and cultures. Okay, the most notable place of mummies in Italy is the the Vatican. No, the Cap Cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-, cap-, cap Cap-.
Speaker 1:Cap Cap.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I think I have it all spelled out. It is capuchin. Okay, you jinxed me so bad because I practiced every word so many times. You're just in your head. I know I am in my head, sorry guys. Okay, and that was established in the 16th century. We are also going to move on to another seemingly pointless fact age, or the Cal-Calithic age, which is a archaeological period characterized by the increasing use of smelted copper. Did you know that?
Speaker 1:I couldn't remember the name, but I did know the ages are when they started using different metals.
Speaker 2:So knowledge of the use of copper was far more widespread than metal itself, which I didn't know. That because I feel like a lot of things that you like look at history or when you go to museums, I feel like there are a lot of stuff that's copper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of copper, bronze and iron.
Speaker 2:Yep, so many European archaeological cultures use stone axes molded on copper axes. And again, let's all thank Wikipedia for my help, because I really did need it.
Speaker 1:Did you donate? Huh, you better donate next time, they ask.
Speaker 2:I know I do.
Speaker 1:Okay, good.
Speaker 2:Everybody else should donate for us as well, because it really helps me out. Okay, so do you see any correlation yet?
Speaker 1:I have a guess as to where this is going, okay, but I can't remember if it's Italy or not. Do you want my guess, or should I hold on to it?
Speaker 2:Well, let me give you one more, okay Nonsensical facts. By now we should all know what a curse is. What's a curse? I'm not telling you I don't have it, because y'all should know. We've talked about curses so much.
Speaker 1:If you don't know, wikipedia.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there you go. Okay, so it's also said that there are three types of curses, which I don't know if we've gone into this, so generational curse, cast curse and earned curse. What was the second one, cast?
Speaker 1:Like it was cast it like cast a spell, okay, cast a spell. I was gonna say, if this is like old timey Europe, are we talking like cast with an E, or is it like generational and then cast? I was thinking like okay.
Speaker 2:So generational curses are passed down from generation to generation, with the same problems and troubles coming down. The bloodline Got it Cast. Curses can come into your life or somebody's life through things that do, things you do that cause people to curse you or your life, or you speak a curse over yourself or others. Earned or received curses come into your life through practicing the occult or sinning, apparently. All right, do you want to? I'll take your guess now.
Speaker 1:Well, now that you're talking a curse, I don't know, but wasn't one of like the kind of anthropological missing link humans found frozen in the Alps and was mummified? It was like one of the first actual hominids. I could be totally getting my science facts wrong, but I feel like I remember this.
Speaker 2:You sound smart. Today we're talking about Oatsie Is that the girl.
Speaker 1:No, okay, then I'm mistaken. So there's more than one person frozen in a mountain. Cool, there's a lot.
Speaker 2:So it's O-T-Z-I. So again, I went through so many. Some pronounce it almost like Etsy, but it's Oatsie and it's an abbreviation of the mountain range we talked about. I'm going to trust you so. Or? He is often referred to as the Iceman.
Speaker 1:Okay, yep, I've heard of the Iceman before. So I think I was getting a couple stories mixed up there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you were, but it sounded legit Okay.
Speaker 1:Confidently incorrect and everyone believes you Okay.
Speaker 2:There you go, all right. So uh otzi is thought to have lived between 3350 why did I just say that? And 3105 bc y'all. It's been too long, so making him older than the egyptian pyramids or stone hedge that's pretty damn old yeah.
Speaker 2:So because I don't want people to yell at me because I probably are pronouncing it wrong, I'm just going to call him oh from now on, perfect. So oh was found on september 19th 1991 by two german tourists at an elevation of 3 210 I think it was supposed to be feet, but might've been meters. Whoops, sorry guys.
Speaker 1:Either way, he's high up there.
Speaker 2:In the Oatsall Alps, yep and the Australian Italian border.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:The discovery of O was made by Helmut and Erica Simpson. Nope, simon, okay, I am so in my head you guys. I'm so sorry. Just like when stumbling upon a dead body and thinking it's a mannequin, the couple thought that they had just come across a recently deceased mountaineer. They was wrong.
Speaker 1:I mean recent or not. How jarring would that be to be just like hiking on a mountain and come across a dead body. It would not be my favorite hike.
Speaker 2:Okay, no, it wouldn't, but I'm going to be completely honest. I feel like that's I would in my head. I would expect that because I feel like so many people die on mountains. Yeah, but still. It's not like you want to find it, but I just feel like I would just be like, oh shit, Damn it.
Speaker 1:It happened, another one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, another one. Ok, so a mountain gendarme, which is their law enforcement and I probably said it wrong, but I don't care attempted to remove the body the next day, but the torso of the body was frozen to the ground and so they couldn't. They were having trouble getting it. They had like pickaxes and stuff and they're trying to obviously preserve the body and try to get it. But let me kind of paint a picture of this, and you guys should all look at the pictures of this body because it's wild, it's just I don't think it's what you think it would look like. O was discovered face down in the melting ice of a glacier. His arm, or his left arm, was across his chest, like slash his face, and his right arm was down by his side. Okay, so, like I'm showing Zach, yeah, I got it.
Speaker 2:So think of when you lay on the ground and you put your arm across you for support, like if you're laying on this on your stomach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're kind of using it as like a pillow that's kind of what he looks like.
Speaker 2:Okay, bad weather ultimately made the expedition of retrieving the body end, so they just couldn't do it.
Speaker 1:They just it was too much work to get him, to try to preserve him, and then bad weather came which also, like is incredible that this man is older than the pyramids, yep, and on a glacier, yep, because y'all glaciers move, like how it didn't destroy his body.
Speaker 2:I don't know because, like they, Am I stupid. I think I might have asked you this before. I thought glaciers were just in the water. How is it a glacier on a mountain?
Speaker 1:Uh, glaciers, as far as I know, only exist in high points. Oh, just in high points, oh just in high points.
Speaker 2:So what it is is it's like um, okay, imagine ice age, right when everything was covered in ice.
Speaker 1:Yes, it was miles and miles of ice. As that's melted and receded, that ice pull has pulled back, so that ice carved our great lakes yeah, it carved all the like geography of michigan and it carves what are now lakes and rivers and stuff.
Speaker 1:But it sat on top and they would. As the ice formed they would move forward and as the ice melted they would move back, which is like they literally created the like hills and valleys of Michigan. Ok, by just carving through the earth. So like I mean they carve through the earth, how the hell does this body last that long?
Speaker 2:I don't know so. After that initial discovery, though, like eight groups, trekked through the mountains to visit the body of course, oh, so they couldn't get it out um, well, that day they couldn't, so the next day he was found, on the 19th. The next day they went. They couldn't. It was just they were trying to preserve the body. It was just then a bad storm storm came through so they couldn't Got it. They did eventually get him out on the 22nd, so it wasn't that much farther after they found him and he was transported to the office of medical examiner in Innsbruck.
Speaker 2:Ok, so on the 24th the examination done by archaeologist Conrad Spindler started, which how cool if you were that person to start that Like, that's crazy, this is 1991.
Speaker 1:Right, Like I wonder what his job looked like before then.
Speaker 2:It was probably like I know, I was wondering that, Like you know, looking at mammoth, bone fragments, and all of a sudden you get this like oldest man on the planet, here you go.
Speaker 2:Isn't that so cool, okay? So O was a rare find. He was stated to be in fresh condition, so obviously we already talked about mummies, so we kind of know that he was basically a mummy. He still had his flesh, obviously, bones and muscle intact. Also, his organs were well preserved, with an eye, some brain, the tongue still inside his skull, as well as his heart, liver and lungs inside his body that is insane, that like that wherever he landed has just stayed so cold, cold enough to preserve it for that long that's so crazy when you think about that
Speaker 2:oh yeah, I mean, the chances are so, so slim so multiple tissue and other samples were studied at several scientists scientific institute scientific institutes instead okay, with all of them resulting in, like the conclusion that the remains belong to someone 5,000 years ago.
Speaker 1:Jeez Louise, they're older than you.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, zach always loves. Why does Zach always loves something's happening.
Speaker 1:You're just replacing all your A's with E's today.
Speaker 2:Something's happening, you guys, something's happening, yeah, okay. So Zach always just wants to talk about how old I am. I want to give you a little bit about O that they found, like what they found about him. So he was approximately five feet three inches tall and he weighed Shorty. We love short kings around here, true true, true. My husband is short, in case no one knew.
Speaker 1:You don't have to shame him. I'm not shaming him.
Speaker 2:We love short kings, true Shorty. So he weighed 110 pounds and was about 45 years old.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:At the time of his discovery he weighed 30 pounds five ounces, and it was determined that he most likely spent childhood near the present South Tyrol village of Felterns. Which that is crazy that they were able to pinpoint so many different things just by looking at.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It's crazy. So the way that they figured out was due to the analyst of pollen, dust grains and the isotopic composition holy shit of his tooth enamel. Interesting Okay, how the hell do you figure out where he grew up in his childhood by all that? That's so fascinating to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like you would have to have like enough other bodies to like start to put them in groups that way, but that is wild.
Speaker 2:It blows my mind, just blows it right up. Maybe my mind should be blown up because it's clearly not working today.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're doing amazing, sweetie.
Speaker 2:I'm not, but thank you, I appreciate you. A CAT scan was performed in 2009 and his stomach content contained partially digested remains of goat meat.
Speaker 1:You know that would be a pretty solid last meal, though.
Speaker 2:I know so. Dna analysts suggested he had a meal less than two hours before his death, and I literally wrote in here which that's all we can hope for a death with a full belly.
Speaker 1:True that? Oh my God, If I die, can you imagine? Starving oh no, I want to die eating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, honestly.
Speaker 1:That's when I'm at my happiest.
Speaker 2:Right. So, speaking of that, I forgot to tell you. I got my ancestry results back and I paid for the extra traits and stuff and one of them, one of the traits, is hangriness. That's literally a trait and it's like I have a high propensity of beat to be a hangry person, which I am. Oh my God, stop. You are too. Not as bad as me. Not as bad, but yes, I am. Yes, you do. He had high levels of copper particles and arsenic were found, like in his hair. This, along with his copper ax blade that was found with him, which was 99.7% pure copper, led scientists to speculate that he was involved in copper smelting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, isn't that crazy. That's also incredibly pure for 5,000 years old.
Speaker 2:I know, but we know everything about him, like we knew where he grew up. We knew how tall he was, how much he weighed, what he did for a living.
Speaker 1:It's so weird.
Speaker 2:This is crazy. I know it's so crazy to me.
Speaker 1:I love. I almost went to school for anthropology because I love this shit and then I realized that, like 90% of the job would be touching bones. I'm like I'm out, bones wouldn't bother me. But I can't even eat chicken on the bone dude.
Speaker 2:Well, I can't eat chicken on the bone either.
Speaker 1:You know that, but that's because it's in my mouth. That's disgusting, I'll touch it. I don't even want to touch it. Okay, I'm good.
Speaker 2:All right. So that's that copper age that we talked about. See, all my seeming us meaningful, meaningful, meaningless facts were actually meaningful, all right. O was also found to have had whipworm, which was an intestinal parasite. So he had that when he died Not saying that's why he died, but he had it when he died. He also had three or four cracked ribs, which were most likely after he died from the weight of the ice on his body.
Speaker 1:That would make sense.
Speaker 2:Again what? It's just so crazy to me, I don't know. All right, some articles state he was possibly attacked during his trek in the mountains. He was found with an arrow oh, excuse me, arrow deeply sunk into his left shoulder. I'm going to tell you guys right now, I didn't find a lot of articles that said he had that in there, and even Wikipedia didn't say that. So I don't actually know if that part is true or if he just had it in there and it was like he just had had it for a long time Like an old injury or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I'm not sure. Okay, got it.
Speaker 2:But the thought is that he could have gotten attacked and then possibly bleeding to death and collapsing to die alone, which kind of makes sense, because if he got shot in that left arm, that left shoulder, he probably would have been clutching it to his chest and then him falling and then dying the way he did. So it kind of makes sense, okay.
Speaker 1:I could see it.
Speaker 2:But I don't know. O was found with what is now being called the Iceman Survival Kit and he had belongings scattered all around his body and in his little kit. I can list you some of the things, not that we know what they all are, but well, that's another thing we can denote about him is he wasn't very organized.
Speaker 1:If they're just spread everywhere, I know.
Speaker 2:so he had medicinal fungus. He had an arrow notch I'm not quite sure what that is A belt of pouch the back inch of an arrow that they cut out so it fits in the string.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:A belt in the pouch, flint tools, an owl A-W-L.
Speaker 1:Owl, an owl, I think it's a gardening tool.
Speaker 2:I think it is too. You can look that up. He had tinder fungus.
Speaker 1:It's like a hole punch. Oh okay, he had tinder fungus.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, he had a re-torcher for working flints, a needle needle and an arrowhead. Okay, so that was in his little survival kit. I don't know.
Speaker 1:They say he was a copper crafter, but I think he was maybe a fletcher. Okay, he makes arrows, that's my guess. I was going to say what's a fletcher? I know I could see it in your eyes.
Speaker 2:Well, also our listeners might not know what that is either.
Speaker 1:A fletcher would be somebody who makes arrows.
Speaker 2:All right. So in 2010, a study published suggested that he wasn't attacked but properly buried, allowing for a better explanation for his incredible preservation. I could keep us here for hours. So, oh, and all the findings and how they related each back to specific times and places. It's just so fascinating. I could literally talk about this for hours. What was he?
Speaker 1:wearing.
Speaker 2:You know, what's so funny is that there was a whole thing about what he was wearing and I was like I'm not going to put it in here.
Speaker 1:The only reason I ask is because I feel like that would help us speculate whether it was like an accidental death or a burial based.
Speaker 2:You're so funny, because that's exactly part of it was. That's why they thought that it wasn't an attack. It was like a burial.
Speaker 1:OK, interesting why they thought that it wasn't an attack. It was like a burial. Okay Interesting, okay, dang I should have added it.
Speaker 2:I was like I had so much and I was like that's okay, I know how it goes. We have. If we told the whole story of everything, we'd be here for hours. Yes, all right. So, however, that is also fascinating. Like we just said, we could sit here for hours, but this is not what fascinated me about this.
Speaker 1:What did was the curse of Oatsy the Iceman. Yes, which I've never heard of. I'm just excited for a curse because you mentioned it earlier.
Speaker 2:Sorry, so yes, my little oddball is, there's a curse surrounding our mummy, shocker.
Speaker 1:I can't wait, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:All right. Is there anything else you want to add or talk about before we get into our curse?
Speaker 1:I'd really like to know what he was wearing. No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 2:Well, I can look it up Curse, curse, curse, curse, okay, in 1992. So remember, he was found in 1991.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Rainer Henn, who was head of the forensic team. Remember we talked about how cool it would have been to be him. Oh, no, remember, we talked about how cool it would have been to be him.
Speaker 1:Oh no.
Speaker 2:He died in a horrific car crash on his way to give a lecture about the findings of Oatsy.
Speaker 1:OK, so not so cool to be him, no.
Speaker 2:Poor guy. And again, like I said, Rainer was the first person to actually put his bare hands on the body while placing him in the body bag.
Speaker 1:He has bare hands.
Speaker 2:He had the bare hands. Maybe he had gloves on, I don't know. Placing him in the body bag, he has bare hands. He had the bare hands, not human hands. He had gloves on, I don't know. But Claws Like this is your worst nightmare touching bones, all right. So on a scale of one through five, on a curse factor, starting with just that.
Speaker 1:Coincidence. Okay, you can't have a curse with just one. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:All right, I'll give you a coincidence on this one, on that one.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:Perfect. Next was the mountaineer guide, kurt Fritz, obviously well experienced because he's the guide. He died in a freak avalanche. He was the only one in the group to be struck from falling rocks, and in an area very, very well known for him. And Kurt was the mountain guide who led Hen to the body and was also one of the first to help uncover the body.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we're moving definitely from coincidental to this is weird, but I'm not convinced yet.
Speaker 2:Okay, so next we have another Rainer, but it's Rainer Holtzell, I believe, is how you say it, and this was just a few months after. I love that first name. Rainer I really like it. It's very cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, rain for short yeah.
Speaker 2:I like it a lot.
Speaker 1:I'm here for it.
Speaker 2:If you're having kids soon, name them Rainer Girl or boy.
Speaker 1:Or Zach, you can name them Zach as well, or, kara, prove to us how big fans you are.
Speaker 2:Wait, just Zach or Zachary.
Speaker 1:Oh, zachary, or is it Zacharia if it's a female?
Speaker 2:Zacharia.
Speaker 1:I don't know.
Speaker 2:Wait, zacharia, is that cute, Zacharia?
Speaker 1:Oh, you know what there's the character in Rose Red Zakiya. Why do I kind of like Zacharia? Because you kind of like me All right.
Speaker 2:Well, anyway, kurt, poor Kurt. He died of a brain tumor shortly after elites releasing an hour long documentary of the excavation. He was the only man granted access to film the removal of the body.
Speaker 1:Kind of seems like, whoever the Iceman was, he does not like his story being told, or people are telling it wrong and he's like smite you then.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or like we kind of said, maybe it was a purposeful burial and it was supposed to be like a religious burial.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, OK.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, Like it's not supposed to be disrupted.
Speaker 1:And now you like, yeah, just straight up, desecrated his grave.
Speaker 2:Right, like kind of like a. You know, you always hear, like we like again.
Speaker 1:That's why I added the curse of the mummy.
Speaker 2:It's literally the name of a movie and it's usually like egyptian, but like it could be in other cultures fair, fair enough all right minutes.
Speaker 1:We had one of those in 2004, helmut simon missing.
Speaker 2:After eight days of intense searching, his body was found not far from where Otzi was found.
Speaker 1:I was going to say it had to be on the mountain right.
Speaker 2:His crumpled body. That's what they said. Crumpled body was found in a small stream, having fallen some 300 feet from a treacherous ledge after a freak blizzard passed through. And if you didn't remember, helmut and his helmut and his wife were the ones that found otzi in the first place yeah, they.
Speaker 1:Nobody should have ever messed with this. I don't know why I'm getting like vibes from courage the cowardly dog. Return the slab. Return the ice man okay.
Speaker 2:So I know you, like og listeners, will know that zach a long ass time ago took a piece from the traverse city of same asylum and then had he was cursed for a while I have not found the best way to return it yet you still haven't returned that I think that curse has completely gone away.
Speaker 1:Well, what I was going to say? I completely gone away.
Speaker 2:Well, what I was going to say, I thought you got rid of it. What I was going to say is that when we were at Eloise, we were packing up our bags and he kicked like a piece of like, something fell like, or like we kicked it.
Speaker 1:It was like a piece of concrete from the ceiling, or plaster, and he picked it up.
Speaker 2:I think it was a piece of like metal, but he anyway it doesn't matter up, I think it's a piece of like metal, but he anyway it doesn't matter. He picked it up and I said, put that right down. You are not taking that home.
Speaker 1:I was just like it was around my pile of stuff. I wanted to see if it was mine or not, but no, I learned my lesson the first time okay, crazy enough.
Speaker 2:dieter warncheck, I believe died of a heart attack at helmetsmut's funeral At his fucking funeral.
Speaker 1:Okay, who is Dieter again? Is that his wife?
Speaker 2:No, no that was what the fuck was her name?
Speaker 1:Oh, who's Dieter, though? Would you let me finish? Oh well, get on with it then.
Speaker 2:He was the head of the mountain rescue team sent to look for Helmut when he went missing.
Speaker 1:Oh, they should never have touched this man.
Speaker 2:Oh my God. So can you imagine he went looking for this man, found that he was dead, went to his funeral out of just like you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm sure just being a nice, kind soul, and then had a heart attack and died at the funeral.
Speaker 1:OK, I have some thoughts going, but let's go.
Speaker 2:No, tell me, what are they?
Speaker 1:well, are there more deaths? Because what if? What if the ice man wasn't buried there, nor did he just die there? What if he was cursed, maybe, and he died on that mountain? And now everyone who touched him, like okay, got his curse?
Speaker 2:so archeological, archeological archeological archeologist.
Speaker 1:Just move past it and say the next words conrad spindler died of complications from multiple sclerosis.
Speaker 2:Sclerosis, jesus christ. He was one of the first scientists to examine the mummy. He also publicly scoffed at the curse, declaring, and I will quote it is all a media hype. The next thing you will be saying, I will be next.
Speaker 1:Oh no, don't, don't test it, man he did, he's dead right I already told you that. Oh, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:But he died of complications of his multiple sclerosis, which he shouldn't have died from.
Speaker 1:I think you got cursed with a brain tumor and that's why you can't say all your words.
Speaker 2:Don't say that that's so awful.
Speaker 1:Okay, you got cursed with a temporary brain aneurysm.
Speaker 2:I really hate that you said that, because I've been thinking I have a brain tumor.
Speaker 1:You do not have a brain tumor. If you do, we're naming it Iceman.
Speaker 2:I hate you. Now I'm really not scheduling that doctor's appointment.
Speaker 1:It's better to know. But you don't have a tumor.
Speaker 2:It would be a lot harder than or you'd have a lot more issues than just saying words. Girl, Zachary is so mean to me you guys.
Speaker 1:Oh, you'll be fine.
Speaker 2:If I have a brain tumor, I hope I die and I'm gonna haunt you way more than anybody else does.
Speaker 1:I'd be down for that.
Speaker 2:You wouldn't.
Speaker 1:Will you at least scratch my back at like once a month?
Speaker 2:You think you have it bad now. Oh, baby, all right, are you ready for the next?
Speaker 1:I'm ready for the next.
Speaker 2:Tom Loy was diagnosed with a rare hereditary blood condition.
Speaker 1:I would have died if you said brain tumor.
Speaker 2:Somebody already died of a brain tumor or no? They didn't Hard to say, would it? No, yeah, no, hasn't been a brain tumor yet. He died just prior to completing a book about O, and he also didn't believe in the curse and insisted that it was all pure wild superstition. Loy was the molecular archaeologist who had discovered four different types of blood on both the Iceman's clothing and his weapons.
Speaker 1:Oh, I see he was a fighter.
Speaker 2:But isn't that weird that he then died of a blood condition?
Speaker 1:That is a little bit weird.
Speaker 2:Okay, so now I'm going to ask you do you believe this is a coincidence or a curse?
Speaker 1:Oh, it's definitely a coincidence. No, I'm kidding, okay.
Speaker 2:So I was going to gonna say do you think it's generational, cast cursed or earned curse? But you are kind of thinking. Well, here.
Speaker 1:Here's the question I was going to ask you, because this might help help us pare it down do you think these people are being cursed simply because they found him in a retelling his story, or do you think they're being cursed because they are like a couple of them have kind of challenged the curse or challenged things about him? So is it just the presence of being around him or is it like not respecting him? Because I don't think it's generational.
Speaker 2:No, I don't think it's generational. That doesn't make sense to me. Think it's generational no, I don't think it's generational. That doesn't make sense to me. But I don't think it's because of lack of respect, because these are all people that are well characteristically like respectable jobs and like these are their jobs to do these things and they're, like you know, researching about him and trying to figure out his life and like writing about him and doing documentaries and stuff. So I don't think it's like lack of respect.
Speaker 1:So I almost feel like we need a fourth category then yeah, I mean because I don't feel like they're earning them.
Speaker 2:I don't think that I don't know.
Speaker 1:I cast it on them.
Speaker 2:I think we need a fourth category of accidental curses like they've stumbled into a curse, I guess I would fall under earned I was gonna say I think it's earned curse, whether it's like you just said, like I think it's earned curse, whether it's like you just said, like I think it's like we're disrupting Like a sacred body.
Speaker 2:I don't know if I believe he was attacked. I think he might have Either just accidentally died there or he, like I said, the last Part was that it was probable that this was an actual burial, which I kind of think makes sense, and that's why his stuff was placed around him, like it was like his little grave, you know. So I kind of think that makes sense and whether like the earned curse, again we can go off whatever we believe. But it's stated that it's like because of practices of like the occult or whatever. So maybe it was a sacred burial and it was not to be disturbed and now these people are disturbing it. I don't necessarily think it's because they're being disrespectful, I think maybe it's just because they just disturbed the burial.
Speaker 1:It's interesting too, because I remember learning about him in school, both like literally you know, grade school, high school and college and it's kind of like one of those things where you learn the history of, like you know, the history of America, where as you get older you get the real story more and more, but I've never heard of all the people dying around it. It's just like, oh hey, it's the Iceman. Um, have you ever seen the movie the Autopsy of Jane Doe?
Speaker 2:No, oh, I've heard of it, but no, okay, without giving.
Speaker 1:I don't want to spoil it, don't, but I think if you're you're struggling to figure out what kind of curse this might be, there might be an explanation within that movie. And if you guys haven't seen it, it it is one of the best horror movies I've ever seen and just being like really original, um, it's good.
Speaker 2:Okay, I can't say more than that because I don't want to spoil it for you and I know I know you'll like this one.
Speaker 1:It's not one of the usual ones where I'm like, have you? Seen this, and then you say no and you say I'm never gonna see it.
Speaker 2:You need to see this yeah, I think that it is kind of like an earned curse which, whatever way you want to take it, how it was earned, whether it was just because you fucked with a body that was like restfully, you know, in peace, or, like you said, was he already cursed, and then I guess I would think that that would be an earned curse because you messed with a cursed person. But I don't know. I just thought this, this was so fascinating, like the whole thing of just like finding him being 5 000 years old or more, preserved so perfectly, and then all of these people that touched him or in some way worked on him it kind of reminds me of way, way, way back when, when we covered the hope diamond well, where it was almost like the chain of command of the hope diamond.
Speaker 2:Everyone who touched it were all affected or yeah, um, james dean's car, just like people touching the car, the tire, like things like that. But I don't know. I found this one like crazy, like the hope, diamond was crazy, but this is like I.
Speaker 1:I feel like the other two were a little bit more open for speculation because they were accidental deaths. These are not accidental these are crazy. Yeah, no, this is probably one of the best evidences of curse that we've had. I just want to know, I wonder if his was like a ritual killing oh, maybe you know, maybe less of like uh. What was the word you used for the type of burial like uh?
Speaker 2:sacred sacred.
Speaker 1:What if it was like the opposite?
Speaker 2:and that's why people are having the negative effects now listen, like I said, there's so much research on him where he came from different types of things, so there probably is stuff about, you know, different speculations and stuff like that, but I was trying to not put so much in there. Yeah, but I just thought it was cool because it gave us a lot of history. A mummy I'd be loving me a mummy and then a curse, hello now I gotta do some research.
Speaker 1:So this is I. I was, like I said it was, a really big anthro geek in college until I realized I would have to like physically touch the bones myself. But there was an ice woman too, wasn't there that, like, I think ice man was found first and then the woman I was getting the stories confused, but I think she was found later. That was like some sort of missing, like humans to neanderthal, like some missing link, but frozen too. But that to me is always so crazy to think right Of, like comparison to New Orleans, where a body turns to dust in years. Yep, this thing is perfectly preserved for 5,000 years. Just what you can learn from it. I mean, I wouldn't want to learn from this one. No, thank you.
Speaker 2:But for most of them that aren't cursed, kind of like thinking like am I gonna be cursed? I didn't touch it, I just, respectively, talked about you.
Speaker 1:I don't know who I can write a letter to I was just gonna say you, you better write a letter somewhere. Do some nowhere, nowhere meditation I know nowhere.
Speaker 2:said just talking about him cursed you, it was just a touching.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:But oddly enough, speaking of our letter, robert, oh no. He'd be coming up in my life a lot lately.
Speaker 1:Robert the doll how.
Speaker 2:Because I have that postcard or that picture of him that we got at Payicon and I grabbed a book the other day and it fell out and it was just the floor face up and I was like, oh hey, robert, and then I just nicely put him back and then I was scrolling on like instagram or something and he's popped up multiple times and I haven't spoke about him, so I don't know why he would just keep popping up.
Speaker 2:So now I think that I need to write another letter maybe we need to go visit him I have so many places we need to visit I do really want to visit robert, but I'm not gonna lie, I'm also really that's a good one to have a healthy I don't want to say scared I'm worried fair, because I'm not afraid of him, I'm just I think as long as when you're around him, you're respectable and you don't take the pictures yes, don't take pictures of robert. Follow the rules and you're big otherwise you'll get ball cancer, like colby did no thanks, I'm good all right.
Speaker 2:Well, that is what I have for us today I, I love that.
Speaker 1:That got me kind of going in like my geeky history way I know I loved it but then you know also a curse.
Speaker 2:So I know it was so fun. It was like everything it was. It was well done, well done I wanted to do like another haunted stuff, but I was like I felt like we've done some hauntings lately. We just encrypted, we did aliens and then this has been on the top of my list and I was like a curse.
Speaker 1:We haven't done like really like a curse like this in a minute and still, just, I mean, the story of him alone is I know, yeah, so oh, what? You know what it's close to that we still need to do. What bog bodies?
Speaker 2:yes, we do, we do oh okay all right, more ideas speaking of that, our ask from you guys is recommendations of what you want to hear, because it would be so nice to just have ideas of what you guys are interested in and then we can do the research for you and then talk about it.
Speaker 1:And we always ask for write-ins, but not specifically. Here's one. Here's a specific ask If you ever think that you or a loved one has been cursed, we want to hear about it. Yes, send us your curse stories.
Speaker 2:I don't think there's a mummy emoji, is there?
Speaker 1:I think there's probably a mountain, okay. You could do like a mountain and a man.
Speaker 2:So leave a mountain and a man, there's probably an axe. Whatever, leave a mountain, leave something and do us a favor. We haven't specifically asked in a while, but follow us on our Instagram, our TikTok, our YouTube, because we are trying to branch out on different levels of social media and it really helps us.
Speaker 1:You're going to get a lot more than what we had been giving you. That's part of our new social media stuff we have going, so it is a good time if you're not already following it does help us other than you guys just listening and supporting us.
Speaker 2:That way it does really help us. And we also do have a patreon, so we have a lot of cool stuff going on there and it's going to get cooler as the year progresses. So follow us on there and you don't have to pay. We do have free, so you do get free things. So don't feel obligated, but follow us on that as well. Um, that's really all I have for you guys. I really love you and appreciate you and like my question that Zachary failed. I cannot believe this is our life. I'm very excited. I'm very grateful for all of you guys. I know Zach is too. I'm just giving him shit.
Speaker 2:But, we have so much stuff coming and it's just very, very exciting and we thank you because we could not do it without you guys.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and with that we're closing the shop. So now you got to get out, you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here, you can't stay here.
Speaker 2:So the most important thing you can do for us is to creepy real yabels. Goodbye, bye, goodbye bye. You almost took my. Why did I almost?
Speaker 1:say it. Do you want to try it? I?
Speaker 2:haven't, I haven't go next to it.
Speaker 1:No, do it, do it do it, creep it really, oddballs, nope it doesn't feel right bye. Thank you At the IA Shop, at home with the oddballs. At the IA Shop, the door's always open At the IA Shop.
