Oddity Shop
This podcast examines the oddities of the world...Cryptids to Conspiracies, Cults to Curiosities, Myths to Mysteries, and so much more! Stop by the shop, where the bizarre is always on sale... Each week your curators, Kara Perakovic and Zach Palmer will be opening the shop and sharing stories with you.
Oddity Shop
Lurking in the Dark: The Not-Deer Phenomenon
Welcome To The Oddity Shop, Where The Bizarre is Always on Sale. This week, your curator Kara has a story for you dear deer oddballs
Something watches you from the edge of the forest. At first glance, it's just a deer—but look closer. Those legs bend wrong. Its eyes face forward like a predator's. And it's looking right at you.
The "Not Deer" phenomenon has been terrifying travelers on dark rural roads across America, from the Appalachian mountains to the forests of Oregon. These entities appear to be deer upon first glance, but something is fundamentally wrong—disproportionately long limbs, joints that bend in impossible directions, and movements that suggest something trying to imitate a deer without fully understanding how deer move.
What makes these encounters particularly haunting is the overwhelming sense of dread reported by witnesses before they even consciously register what's wrong. Military veterans, paranormal enthusiasts, and self-described skeptics all describe the same visceral reaction—a primal fear that something dangerous is watching them. Unlike normal deer that scatter at human presence, these creatures maintain unnervingly direct eye contact, sometimes rising to stand on two legs before making jerky, unnatural movements toward observers.
Refs:
- https://www.reddit.com/r/Appalachia/comments/est8f2/not_deer_stories/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/skinwalkers/comments/my4vi9/possible_skinwalkernot_deer_sighting/
- https://www.reddit.com/r/skinwalkers/comments/l8zpcs/skinwalker_not_deer_encounter_what_did_i_see/
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncanny_valley
- https://cryptidz.fandom.com/wiki/Not_Deer
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not-deer
- https://www.cdc.gov/chronic-wasting/animals/index.html
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I want to dance with the mothman at the ID shop, baked in the moonlight at the ID shop. Creep through the graveyard to the ID shop. The door's always open at the ID shop. What's up, oddballs? Welcome back to the Oddity Shop, the place where the bazaar is always on sale and every week we're bringing you.
Speaker 2:What are we bringing you?
Speaker 1:I don't know, my words just totally ran out. We are bringing you creepy, odd, weird, strange, bizarre stories from around the world. This is what happens when me and my lovely curator here take a week off from recording. Lovely curator Kara, how the heck are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great. Now I wasn't. You've been down bad, I've been very down bad. You guys send the good vibes, the magic, the potions, the whatever else. Warm washcloths yeah, send it all. I've just not been. I've been going through a lot lately and yesterday I had probably because of everything I'm going through the worst migraine. It was so awful. It was so awful. It was so awful. So if you're watching me visually right now, it's because I couldn't be bothered.
Speaker 1:Give the girl a break. Today she still looks great.
Speaker 2:But for two weeks you're going to see me looking like this because we record two episodes. I don't care.
Speaker 1:It's all good. You know what? Everyone has a day where they don't feel good, and you ain't got to get dressed up for anybody.
Speaker 2:True that.
Speaker 1:But my shirt says creep it real. It does it. Creep it real, very nice. Also, speaking of things that are two weeks, since you've said two weeks, you know what is three weeks away, because math is hard Our event. So there might still be some tickets left if you last minute thinkers want to grab them. If we are sold out. I am so sorry, but we're so excited for the loes, build and investigate event. It's gonna be amazing. Okay, that's my pitch on that today cute.
Speaker 2:Um, I have two things. Do you want to start with the sad thing, or like the thing that we should all do to make ourselves happy? Every day, I feel like you always end on sad things, so let's start with the sad thing, or like the thing that we should all do to make ourselves happy every day, I feel like you always end on sad things, so let's start with it michelle tracking track number died and it is the most tragic thing ever and I'm so heartbroken I like growing up before I realized that I was not into women.
Speaker 1:I was in love with her harriet the spy harriet the spy, buffy gilmore girls like she was the one.
Speaker 2:Oh, I have to admit I hated her and buffy for for like the first. Yeah, she is, but she was meant to be annoying yeah, yeah, no, it's such a shame.
Speaker 1:Though I heard it, it was like really really, really sad.
Speaker 2:She had a liver transplant plan yeah and not that long. So if any of you want to even cry more about it, if you go to Sarah Michelle Gellar's Instagram and you see her tribute, it is the. She changed the words from Dawn. I have goosebumps to Michelle and it's the exact scene, like when she killed herself to save Dawn. Yeah, Sarah, why would you do herself to save Dawn? Yeah, sarah, why would you do that to us?
Speaker 1:Seriously, though, that's a sad one. Rest in peace, for sure.
Speaker 2:So well, actually this is kind of weird because it's like a little bit of a segue. So my other thing was Ash from Morbid, who also does the rewatcher, which is a Buffy the Vampire Slayer rewatcher. The other week, or one episode I was listening to, she said that what she's been doing. Zach, are you okay? Zach just started coughing profusely, are you okay?
Speaker 1:I. We sprayed really strong sage spray before we started this episode and it's been like getting to me.
Speaker 2:I just looked up and you were dying. Okay, anyway, what she's been doing is she me. I just looked up and you were dying. Okay, anyway, what she's been doing is she on her note app. Every day she's been like kind of like a list and every day she's been putting one good thing that happened to her that day. Oh, that's what I do in my journal, but like she keep. But well, just fine, a journal is fine.
Speaker 2:But she was like I purposely keep it on my phone that way when I'm out and about and I'm bummed or something's going on, I can go back to that list and I can look at it and like I think that's something that we should all maybe try maybe I should move that to my phone.
Speaker 1:I do like that.
Speaker 2:I know I do too. I haven't started yet because I wanted to share with all you guys and then I thought it would be fun if our Patreons we could all share, like one good thing, with each other in our little patreon I like that maybe I'll add a new group in there.
Speaker 1:That's like the like one good thing for the day, maybe we could just share it in our patreon, yeah, okay I finally pulled three rocks out of the tumblr that are now shiny shit.
Speaker 2:How many weeks has this been?
Speaker 1:way too many uh, we're going on two full months of trying to figure out how to tumble rocks, but of the 20 that have been tumbling, three of them are now shiny, so we're trying the rest again.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, that made me think of my shiny teeth in me, and I've spent two days watching Fairly Oddparents.
Speaker 1:Oh God, okay, before it gets stuck in my head, you know what we got to get this thing opened. Are you ready to open the shop?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Do ready to open the shop?
Speaker 1:yeah, do you have a question for me. I swear to god, if it is about fairly odd parents, I'm gonna lose it what's your favorite episode? Okay, anyway the, the video game one where they go in the vr game.
Speaker 2:Okay oh see, mine would just be with anything with chip skylar, because I love.
Speaker 1:Can we stop bringing up chip sky I'm. That song is in my head, it's's in my head. It's too late. What's your question?
Speaker 2:Okay, my question is how many deer have you seen?
Speaker 1:You do realize I lived out in the sticks. Right, it has to be in the thousands.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you're pretty confident with deer.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, so are you like a deer expert?
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm not like a zoologist, but I I feel like I might know a little bit more about deer than people who've seen 10. Well, I don't really care how many you've seen um, okay, so why ask?
Speaker 2:because you made me ask you a question. Okay, so we all know by now, if you've been listening for a while. We often touch on like the uncanny valley effect or like you know when, if it's like if you're not familiar. This is like when the relation between an object's degree of resemblance to be like a human right, but there's also like the same kind of like uncanny effect where it's like you see something and you're like that kind of looks like something else, which. Ok. So basically you know what I'm talking about. It's just like you get these odd vibes like something isn't right with what you're looking at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're just like it's something in that reptile brain of yours. It just is like red flag yeah.
Speaker 2:OK, so do you have any thoughts on what we're getting into?
Speaker 1:I do, but I shouldn't say the word.
Speaker 2:Am I correct?
Speaker 1:No, Okay, I know what you're thinking of.
Speaker 2:Okay, so the not deer is described as a deer upon first glance. Glance not glass. Kara, get it together. However, after a short time it's clear something isn't quite right. So have you heard of the not deer? I have not.
Speaker 1:Really, I've seen sort of some like not dogs, maybe videos on.
Speaker 2:YouTube and TikTok, but wow, I'm surprised, OK cool.
Speaker 1:I love new ones.
Speaker 2:All right. So, like a lot of these things, there is very little to actually go off of, but I'm going to give you what we got.
Speaker 1:All right, I'm ready.
Speaker 2:Okay. If you see one after time you start to kind of notice unnatural properties, so like strange features and disjointed limbs. Knot deers tend to have longer limbs than deer and their chests seem to like protrude out farther. So like if you were to just see one, you would realistically think it's a deer. But then after a while you're kind of like there's just something not right with that deer Okay.
Speaker 2:So if longer limbs isn't creepy enough, they seem to like be double jointed or have additional joints in the wrong places. Oh, so, like think of how, like deer joint, like their legs joint, yeah, and then they're like wrong.
Speaker 1:I mean, I already feel like things that walk on four legs. Their elbow joints if they're still called elbows are weird anyway. But yeah, if I saw one that was even weirder, it would stick out to me yeah.
Speaker 2:So one majorly defining attribute is that they have eyes on the front of their head, and so animals that have eyes placed on, like the side of their heads, or it's so that they have like a wide vision to be able to spot predators, and having them in the front is easily to track prey like with better depth, and we know deers are prey, so their eyes should be more on the side of their head. If you're thinking of like what a deer looks like, not directly in the front, do you get what I'm talking about?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I totally get what you're talking about. I know it's hard to Because like well, no we're. I've never heard of, not deer, but I have heard of, like the animal phenomenon where the eyes aren't in the right spot.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'll see where this goes. Maybe we just have looked it up with different names. Anyway, looking strange, isn't their only mo? Um, okay, so when I would go out in my 20s, some of my friends and I had like a code word for like the really drunk girl trying to keep it together in her heels and we, like we all know what I'm talking about like they're just, they can't walk, they're like stumbling, they're trying to keep up, and we would just call them baby deers because they look like stupid ass baby deers, so think of it.
Speaker 1:We would call them dg for drunk girl oh, um.
Speaker 2:So think of, though, a newborn baby deer trying to walk, but in a full deer's body, okay I can picture it yeah, they're said to have very rough movements, kind of like that clunky baby deer, which is weird to see in a huge adult deer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Joints in the wrong place, eyes in the wrong place and walking weirdly through the woods would be enough to make me second guess things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, think of like Edgar moving in his meat suit when he from the Men in Black, you know he's like, like he's like trying to like.
Speaker 1:No, I know exactly what you mean.
Speaker 2:Yes, sugar water okay, so additionally, kind of like what I said before, but they said they sometimes tend to bend their legs opposite to how you'd envision a deer, which is so disgusting to me, yeah, could you imagine seeing it bend the opposite way? I don't know why that is so gross.
Speaker 1:Just kind of gives me like the creatures from the village.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, so staring blankly into the distance is often noted as a behavior of a not deer. So like not necessarily staring at you, but just like staring straight into like nothing.
Speaker 1:I would freak out if I saw.
Speaker 2:Is this not really just disturbing? It's not the right word, but that's just so unsettling.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Unsettling.
Speaker 1:Cause, like I feel like if it was just staring off and looked normal I'd be okay with it, but just like weirdly just staring off and looked normal.
Speaker 2:I'd be okay with it, but just like weirdly. So the number one experience that you will have in the company of a not dear is an overwhelming feeling of dread and unease makes sense yeah, and then, like before you actually spot it, you might feel like that uneasy feeling, like that you're being watched, okay, and if you, if you hear a not deer, it's said to make a clicking sound.
Speaker 1:No see, this is getting worse.
Speaker 2:So the creepiest thing to me is not that they stand on their back legs, but they walk jaggedly towards you on them.
Speaker 1:Okay. So when I said I've seen not dogs, I've seen like a dog with weird limbs, like it was running, like it was, and then all of a sudden it went behind a tree and was standing up and like but like they hop strangely weird fucking on their back two legs I don't know it's giving like predator or something it's giving run the fucking other way. True.
Speaker 2:And then seeing you does not bother them, they do not give a shit. I'm not surprised on that one, like they just don't care, they just they'll stand right there and then they'll still stare off blankly into something else, like while you're just standing there like or close to them, which is weird because you know, deers usually scatter, I feel like sometimes they freeze, but then they run. They don't just like stay.
Speaker 1:I have had one. Stay right before it ran into my car.
Speaker 2:RIP Bampy.
Speaker 1:Literally more deer have hit me than I have hit them so, jesus, you are an expert.
Speaker 2:Um so there doesn't seem to be any direct lore around the not deer other than that they original originated. Originated in the appalachian mountains of course they did what?
Speaker 1:what creepy monster does it?
Speaker 2:I know, and they are one of the only cryptids not characterized as an entirely unknown creature, such as like big, because they're kind of a deer, but they're a not deer, so they're really characterized as like a deer, yeah, so what are your other thoughts on the not deer deer?
Speaker 1:a couple of them, so let's hear it. One I'm getting a little bit of Dogman vibe, with just the shapeshifter of like it's taking on the form of this other creature, but it's not quite doing it right. Yeah, it's like just weird. And then our other is the term that we don't say but flesh pedestrian.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, some people do correlate those two, but not a lot, so I wasn't going to put that in here because that needs to be their own episode.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, but it's strange to me where it's like there's and this is maybe getting ahead of myself Right, but when we're looking at flesh pedestrians as a whole, I think we're glomping a lot of things together. I think we're putting some of these the dogmen, the not deer and all these other things and like, because the true essence, if you start to look into flesh pedestrians, compared to the folklore version of them, are really different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I feel like every different, yeah, like there's so many different. Like you said, everybody kind of has a folklore around that and I'm going to say it one time If you don't know what a flesh pedestrian is, it is the word you're allowed to say versus skinwalker, and we're not going to say it again.
Speaker 1:True, but you know, it's just giving me some sort of shapeshifter vibes Obviously not good vibes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think some people even kind of could classify it or like in the another thing I don't want to say, but the wendy boys, a wendigo version um, well, see, that's another one that I don't, and I am not the knowledge expert on this, but I wonder.
Speaker 1:It makes me wonder what the true difference is between the wendy boys and the pedestrians, or if we're talking about the same thing through a different lens well, I'm gonna.
Speaker 2:I definitely want to do an episode on those two, because I do think that there are a lot of similarities but a lot of differences, so we will do that one day. Perfect, um. Okay, so those are your thoughts and that is literally all we have on the not dear yay, we're done, so we get to go home early today. Yes, perfect, we're dismissed um let me guess reddit stories uh, you know it, baby, let's go.
Speaker 2:Some of these are like you're like, okay, yeah, that's definitely what we're talking about. Some of them you're like maybe, but either way, we got some stories, boo, boo let's do it so I'm just gonna jump right on in. I lived in waynesboro. Is va, what's va? Virginia no one can see that I'm literally doing a va with my fingers she's doing like a p sign, a town down. Well, because it's okay, um, for about five years, less than 10 miles to the BRP North entrance. I don't know what that is, but okay.
Speaker 1:I'm going to guess some sort of park, yeah.
Speaker 2:Skyline Drive South entrance. I used to take bike rides along SD all the time and always kept a year long membership. Only in the day, though, just to frame the story, one night, as I was having a particularly hard time settling in for bed. So I decided to start up my bike and ride up to the first overlook on Skyline, only about a mile inside the park. It was about 11pm when I got up there and, pitch black, I killed the bike and got immediately uncomfortable, because who the hell would do that? I mean, it's so dark.
Speaker 1:When I lived by the state park, man, I used to go all hours. Yeah, but you were probably in a car At Bald Mountain. No, I would just hike from the back of the apartment complex. You have issues?
Speaker 2:I'm not a guy that gets spooked in the dark. Truthfully, I prefer the dark. In most situations. You can see people before they see you. You are particularly invisible, unless someone is looking for you, and I find the natural privacy comforting. Not up there, though, it was a thick, oppressive dark, worse than anything I had experienced outside of a cave and worse than any moonless night in the Appalachian Trail.
Speaker 1:I was going to say, though I wouldn't do it in Appalachia, but is Virginia. I guess it would still be on the Appalachian Trail, wouldn't it? Yeah? I would have Fuck with that yeah, I guess if West Virginia is straight on a motorcycle at 11 pm in the dark. Ok, given the location, no, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2:OK, I don't know what this means. I immediately got hinked out. Big time Hinked out Me either.
Speaker 1:I like it.
Speaker 2:Okay, there's nothing up there besides wildlife. I reassured myself internally. I had my .44 mag revolver from when I lived hiked in the Pacific Northwest bear country and all that jazz tucked into my CCW holster, so I knew I definitely outmatched anything that could come up there.
Speaker 1:Anything living. Right Well yeah, that's not living, but normal living yeah.
Speaker 2:He wrote two legged snakes included. So I sat in the dark leaning against the bike for a while and looking at the few lights I could see in the valley below. I managed about 10 minutes before I physically felt the hair rise on my back, the back of my neck. I only did 27 months in Iraq, but I remembered that precise feeling someone was watching me, something bad was coming. It was the same sensation I would get before IDF came in or the shooting sound somewhere nearby. I'm no psychic or whatever, but it's a common thing among vets with that with any time under their belt. Ask him about it. How'd you like this guy's story?
Speaker 1:His personality really shines through in his writing.
Speaker 2:I know it's kind of why I picked it.
Speaker 1:Like I could have guessed.
Speaker 2:He was a vet almost before that you can feel hateful eyes on you. The overlook was a sheer drop, or nearly so, so I wasn't concerned about anything popping up in that direction, but the mountainside and thick, untamed woods were behind me. I started thinking about methed out dudes creeping in the Appalachian Trail, bears and the like.
Speaker 1:It's just so funny. Okay, I love that we're freaked out about messed out guys before bears, but you know, go off the at is no stranger to random violence still feeling creeped out.
Speaker 2:I took up a seat on the waist, the waist high stone wall and marked the overlook ledge facing the woods. Again, I can't emphasize how dark it was, but grizz you might say, that's him. Um, why not turn on the bike and use the lights?
Speaker 1:why not grizz?
Speaker 2:it'll at least help you. Yeah, it'll at least help you see what's close, true, but my bike is loud, all caps and the last thing I wanted was attention Plus. The light would just night blinds me, if anything just out of view and the noise would obscure the stealthy sounding creeping going on. So no thanks, I'll watch and listen for a bit, which that is really smart, because a lot of people would turn that light on, but then you really can't actually see, and especially if something is tracking you.
Speaker 1:you just gave up your position.
Speaker 2:Exactly. I sat in the dark for another 10 minutes or so, anxiety getting worse and worse. I heard a few things, but nothing out of the ordinary for a night in the woods I decided to head on home, since that feeling wasn't going away. Like I said, I had a big bore on me, so anything playing games would be for a powerful surprise if the games got stupid. Hopping onto my Suzuki, I started it up and rode off towards the gate.
Speaker 2:Now, anyone who lives in the country and rides bikes knows the wildlife is crazy active on the roads that aren't traveled on, often at night. Being nighttime and technically closed, I had to ride around the gate to get in. There were no other vehicles on the road at all. I hadn't seen a single other person since leaving Waynesboro proper. The speed limit was about 30, but I clipped along at a measly 15 miles to keep my eye on the deer and the wildlife. It wouldn't do me any good to fuck myself up in a rack, only to lay there all night until someone happened to cross me in the morning.
Speaker 1:Especially if you're hearing weird shit.
Speaker 2:Right Then I saw it. Oh no, the term of almost deer is really fitting Not, but quite accurate. It was like a deer that someone who had never seen a deer drew but only after someone else described it to them. It stood up on the left side of the road, mountainside, and I saw the eyes long before the headlight shone it fully. It was big, easily the biggest deer I've ever seen, and the lack of any horns that time of the year suggested it was a doe. The head was almost bovine in shape but fixed to a deer's frame. The legs seemed too long in proportion to the body Think maned wolf proportions and the body is extremely barrel chested.
Speaker 2:I've always been creeped out by male formed wildlife, and this was no exception. Unfortunately, I had to get it to move or the risk of passing within a few feet of it.
Speaker 1:Oh, it was in front of the gate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, it was on the mountainside, but like yeah, okay, yeah. Oh, it was on the mountainside. But like yeah, okay, yeah, I was not traveling another 30 plus miles up the road in the other direction to leave through another gate in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1:Not when it already knows where you are.
Speaker 2:Right and I wasn't getting close to it. Dangers of it spooking and running into the side of my cruiser. Aside, I didn't want to get near it at all, stopping and putting my feet down about 30, it just says 30 away from it. I tried to frighten it away. I flashed my beams down low and back high nothing. I revved my engine nothing. I honked considerably, considerably horn nada, resting the bike in the kickstand. I let it idle and hopped off. I yelled at the thing and it still didn't budge. So I started the side of the road to grab something to toss near it, near the deer thing, hoping it would spook it away. As soon as I crossed into the other lane it rose up onto its hind legs. I froze, putting my hand on my gun. I wasn't about to get charged by any angry, confused, malformed doe.
Speaker 1:Oh, you see now Grizz has taken more time than I would have. I would be probably firing at this point. I'd be screaming.
Speaker 2:It took two jerky, unnatural steps towards the center of the lane on two legs and froze again staring directly at me, at me. It suddenly shook its head wildly like a dog with a toy, took another short step, then hopped on two legs several times until it disappeared into the darkness on the right side of the road. What the fuck?
Speaker 1:like that is terrifying in and of itself. Alone, but I was alone. But if you're out in the woods alone, right like that is now a hundred times worse. I like if you don't have anybody, you're just no and you don't know where it's gone into the woods. Now I'm I'm peeling out of there yeah.
Speaker 2:So I stepped back onto my bike, mounted it, kicked the kickstand and turned the lights toward the side of the road. On that side there was a sheer drop off, like 75 to 80 compared to the roadway, and the fuckery thing's head was just peeking over the edge, still looking at me. The drop was about 40 to 50. So there's no way it was standing at the base of the mountainside. I cracked the throttle and beat the hell out of their road. Wildlife be damned. I never went back up the skyline drive at night alone after that. One time was enough. There are things we don't grok out there. What does that mean? Whatever, this guy's got some slang or things that just visit for a while. Whatever it was, it wasn't from around these here parts in Hill Talk. It can go back to wherever it came from and stay there. And then he added a little edit and it says Grizz is my road name, as used above. This was originally posted to my social media.
Speaker 1:I love this guy and I really wish I could just like see a picture of him, because the mental image I have of him is freaking amazing.
Speaker 2:He didn't have a picture on his thing, but his name name on reddit is ampersand underscore dot, c, z, dot. C's okay, so thanks, chris. Anyway, isn't that terrifying as hell? Why did it jerk? And then, hop.
Speaker 1:It's almost like it's um okay, did you ever watch harry potter? The first one, but the whole thing where the what's the? The polyjuice potion that'll allow them to like turn into somebody else. And hermione got it all messed up and got a cat hair instead of the girl's hair and it was just like the way she was kind of like moving around, like you're jerking in a body that doesn't belong to you. That's why I'm still thinking shapeshifter on this, because it's like Well, that's why I said Edgar from Men in Black, because he's like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:All right, moving along you got another. Oh, I got a couple.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:All right. So I'm very interested in paranormal things. I get excited and run towards the weird noise. Last winter I was driving on my res to pick my father up at work. It was around 10 PM or so in a very dark night. My headlights started lighting up the back legs of a deer near the road and I started to break, expecting it to run across the road just like you do. Well, I got closer and the back legs of the deer were upright, like it only had two legs. As I slowly passed, there was nothing up top, just dark shadow. The legs were moving, but there was nothing else there. It didn't scare me, but it made me feel wrong.
Speaker 1:I couldn't think of literally there was nothing else there.
Speaker 2:Nothing else there, it was just legs I yeah, I couldn't think of any other way to describe it. Normally I would burst in the door and tell everyone how cool, the cool shit that I just saw, but this just felt different. Dread and wrong were the two words I used to describe the feeling. I felt like I shouldn't be there and I was in the wrong place. It disturbed me. It took me over a month to tell anyone because it just made me feel bad and like like I should keep it to myself. I haven't even asked anyone else on the res about it because I just felt like I shouldn't for some reason and I can't articulate. I've told a few family members and my best friend and now here because I can't believe this was almost the exact same experience, because this was also. This was off of a comment of a story, did this one give a location so this is.
Speaker 2:This is she says next, this was on the and I do not want to butcher this, but it's the h-a-u-d-e-n-o-s-a-u-n-e-e hadusani reservation.
Speaker 1:I didn't look up where that was that is not a tribe I've heard of before, so I can't help you out there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm unaware of any stories describing anything like this, but admittedly my knowledge is limited in this area. First off, what the hell Can you imagine if you only saw the bottom part of a deer standing up on its legs?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, so was the rest of it shrouded, or was it?
Speaker 2:Well, she just thought it was like a shadow, Like there was nothing. It was just like the bottom part of a deer standing upward and then you couldn't see anything else. So maybe it was like transitioning, you know, like like the upper part didn't form yet. I have a new theory, you know, like like the upper part didn't form yet I have a new theory, ok, ok.
Speaker 1:So I looked up this reservation and it's basically like OK, so the maps that are coming up literally put like Lake Ontario and Lake Erie the wrong way. So these are really old maps, ok, but they're just north of New York and Virginia is south of New York. I bet you all these motherfuckers came from Plum Island. Oh my God, probably If you don't know Plum Island, we did a whole episode on that, but that's where monsters are made, literally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, so that story was from Gadio Fantastico, but I thought that was a quick little weird one. Yeah, so I'm it's like okay. To me it's like she saw it before it was fully formed, like the upper half was still like forming.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this which one would be more unsettling to you the back legs or that whole thing that Grizz saw?
Speaker 2:I think the back legs only because the full thing I think you could pass off as like a rabid deer or something.
Speaker 1:See, I'm so the opposite. The legs, I'd be like okay, I just missed the rest of it. It was shrouded in darkness, that's fine, but if this like barrel chested bovine headed thing, well I know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:They're both creepy. Yeah, okay, all right. I believe I saw what a lot of people call a not deer last fall. I figured this is a good place as any to post this, since I see the term not deer tied with flesh pedestrians and other similar creatures pretty often. There isn't a lot to this story, but it has stuck with me and every time I think back on it I feel really uneasy.
Speaker 2:I live in Colorado, in a mountain town south of Denver. The road I live off of is a winding back road through a valley. One side of the road is right against a rock steep, like a wall in some places and more sloping in others, and the other side kind of drops off into the valley. Also might be worth noting that the mountain on the other side of the valley is a huge burn site with nothing but skeleton trees, got it. I've heard a couple of stories that take place near the burn site with nothing but skeleton trees, got it. I've heard a couple of stories that take place near the burn site, so maybe there's some correlation.
Speaker 2:This was probably around late August, early September. I was driving home late, probably around 1am. I know the road and all the curves pretty well, so I was going a pretty decent speed and probably wasn't being as actively aware of my surroundings as I should have been, especially since deer and elk are pretty common here. Anyway, I was coming up on the last curve before my street and I saw a deer standing at the side of the road and on the side with the rock face. The deer was standing completely still facing the rock wall. That in itself doesn't sound too strange, I know, but there was just something unnatural in its stillness and the fact that it was staring straight into the rock, nowhere it could go, was odd. But what stuck with me was the feeling I immediately got upon seeing it Just an ungodly pit in my stomach. It felt like my heart stopped. And this wasn't the oh shit, the deer on the side of the road surprised me kind of stomach pit. This was an absolute feeling of dread. It also seemed like there was something just off about the deer. For the life of me I can't picture in my head or pinpoint what it was, but something proportion wise was wrong, like maybe its legs were a little too long or its torso was stretched out. I'm not sure I didn't have time to really react other than just slow down a bit and just keep driving. As I rounded the curve I literally could not take my eyes off the rear view mirror and the thing didn't move at all. Oh, that's so weird, I know. Not a flinch, nothing, just stone still. Even after I was behind the curve and couldn't see it anymore, I still couldn't peel my eyes off the rear view. I pulled in the garage and hit the garage door closer before I even parked, and when I got out of the car I couldn't stop myself from running up the stairs. I couldn't shake the feeling of dread, like I was in danger.
Speaker 2:I'm not by any means superstitious. I like stories about cryptids and I think they're super interesting, but I've never really believed them. But since that night, as short-lived as the encounter was, if there is one supernatural thing, I believe it was that creature. I know in my gut it was not just a deer. It's also worth noting that after I told my visiting friend about the experience, she admitted that the year before, when she was visiting for the first time, she felt a similar dread pit in her stomach as we were approached at that same spot. It seems like the not deer is pretty new and there aren't a whole lot of stories and sightings of them, but from what I read, I am led to believe that this is exactly what I saw that night.
Speaker 1:Okay. So there's a couple interesting things happening. The first one is, I think it's important to really note we now have a lover of the paranormal, a skeptical and a vet who are all giving very similar stories. So I don't think you could get three different perspectives really right. Just based on the descriptions we have from these people to me gives evidence that something weird is happening here.
Speaker 1:And what I'm kind of getting stuck on is like the dread, right. So somebody who believes in the paranormal and runs towards it and somebody who doesn't believe but might be easily freaked out, they're they're not going to have dread over the same things, and somebody who's been in active war is not going to have dread. So I'm kind of going back to the shape shift around this a little bit, and here's why right, if, like, our eyes and mind can only take in the visible spectrum of light, are they seeing or perceiving something else that's happening underneath where, like, their brain isn't putting the image together but something is like they're seeing it for what it really is somehow, or perceiving something that is just with dread.
Speaker 2:I don't know, it's so weird. I do have a couple more so we can read and then we can debrief, but I don't get their purpose. That's the thing I don't get about them.
Speaker 1:I think they're disguises.
Speaker 2:But like, what are they doing?
Speaker 1:Well, I think they're stopping it whenever they're being seen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess. Okay, All right, Okay, All right, Okay. So I'll start off by mentioning I live in Oregon Okay, Not quite a rural town, but our town is small and only about a 10 minute drive to what you would actually consider a rural town or area. Everyone's heard about the cryptids and lore of Oregon woods. I hate these woods. They're just vast and terrifying but at the same time tempting and beckoning. Almost I totally get that about woods. I stay out of the woods. I don't hunt or fish and I might go hiking every once a couple years with friends, but I may get a point to not go where I don't feel safe. I kind of brushed off all the stories about the woods here until I had my own experience of my own and I'm ready to share what I saw that night.
Speaker 2:My friend and I worked the graveyard shift at a local bakery and we always carpool. She picks me up around 1130. The bakery itself is in a more rural area, but the main road in town takes us almost all the way out there. It's a well-lit road until you get slightly out of town and since it's the main road through town, even at night they're usually passing cars or people walking For my house it takes about 10 minutes to get to work on this road. For about three months this road was being repaved. We'd have to stop literally right before the turn into the bakery and wait for the construction crew to finish whatever project they were doing. After two nights of being stopped right outside of our work for over an hour, that would be so fucking infuriating.
Speaker 1:I would lose my absolute mind.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I feel like at this point I would lose my mind if I had to drive to a job. Yeah, you're ass.
Speaker 2:And the estimated date for construction being done was three months out, we decided to start taking the back roads to work. The back way to work was on the opposite side of town of this main road. It took us out of town, around the outskirts of town and finally to the bakery for a total of about 30 minutes travel instead of 10. The back road was completely surrounded by heavy woods. There was a private drive to a house every five miles or so. No street lights, no passing cars, no pedestrians. The road was also extremely curvy, just consistent twists and turns as expected. We see a lot of deer and the occasional possum squirrel, etc. This particular night we started our journey through the back roads and, as we had all been, as we had been all week, we got about 10 miles through and my friend went around this bend and then suddenly slammed on her brakes. I was on my phone so I wasn't looking up. When I saw it first Don't text and drive.
Speaker 1:He wasn't looking up when I saw it first. Don't text and drive.
Speaker 2:He wasn't driving. Oh okay, Never mind. That's why his friend slammed on the brakes.
Speaker 1:Oh, I don't know why, For some reason I thought they were in the car behind him. But yeah, you already said carpool.
Speaker 2:Okay, but still don't text and drive. I look up and right in the front of the car is a gigantic buck. I'm talking huge, not moose size, but definitely one of the largest bucks I've ever seen. He was staring directly at us through the windshield. We were just kind of frozen for the moment, for some reason. We both looked down at the feet of the deer and between its front feet was a dead raccoon. It was clearly a raccoon. It was clearly a raccoon. It killed a raccoon. But listen, its face was pointed towards us, ringlets on its tail, basically a stereotypical raccoon. Except this thing was huge. Now, the buck was large, but large bucks aren't unheard of. This raccoon was the size of a huge dog, the size of a mastiff. We looked back up at the deer and it was still standing staring right at us like it was making eye contact with with us both. My friend flashes her high beans and honks the horn at the at this, hoping to scare it off.
Speaker 1:It doesn't run which, like when animals don't break eye contact, that's already a sign of aggression. So I'm freaking out and a deer.
Speaker 2:Um, without breaking eye contact with us, it starts to walk toward the car slowly. We both are freaked out and at this point my friend throws the car in reverse, backs up and swerves around the deer the entire time. It moves its head to keep eye contact as we back up, pull to the side and drive away. So it's literally still trying to keep eye contact. That's so fucking creepy.
Speaker 2:I don't like it. Look back behind us and as this thing is just standing in the road staring at us as we drive away, we finally run around the curve and I lost sight of it. But until then it never stopped staring right at us. We talk about this a lot, but how weird it was. I don't think deer. I didn't think deer ate meat. I'm not a deer expert, I just assumed that they were herbivores. So the standing over a dead raccoon was the most unsettling part, even over the consistent eye contact. Luckily we aren't dumb enough to get out of the car, but I always wonder what would have happened if we did. Since then I've been more aware of the lore around here. I've heard unsettling noises and screams coming from the woods.
Speaker 1:This has to be Appalachia too.
Speaker 2:But this was the only Oregon.
Speaker 1:Oh okay, usually screams from the woods. Yeah, but this was the only Oregon. Oh okay, you usually scream from the woods?
Speaker 2:Yeah, actual encounter I think I've had I am. Am I thinking too much into this or is this a little weird to anyone else? There's so many legends and stories of cryptids around here, but I'm sure you've all read about that fucked up stuff that happens at Crater Lake. Just thought this was. This might be an interesting encounter for someone to hear. No one else really believes us, but it's hard to believe something you didn't see with your own eyes.
Speaker 1:I literally just added Crater Lake to my list by the way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was going to say you should, but what I was going to say is I didn't add this in here. They were commenting with other Redditors and the thing that they kept saying was that they couldn't get over how big this raccoon was. Like they were, like you, just don't understand.
Speaker 1:So was the raccoon playing dead, and I don't know. I feel like these are disguises.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't think it was a real raccoon, yeah that's what I'm saying. Yeah, oh, I get what you mean. Like the fake raccoon was playing dead.
Speaker 1:Right saying yeah, yeah, oh, I get what you mean. Like the wreck, the fake record was playing dead.
Speaker 2:Right, it's like oh play dead somebody's coming, yeah, and like there wasn't like blood or anything. It didn't look like it was eating it, it was just like fakely dead I don't like these things all right, I got one more, one more, just one more okay listen, there wasn't a lot of like you know stuff to go off, but there was a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1:No, that was the surprise of like one. No, I know, but there's a lot of stories I brought you a lot of stories, because there really wasn't anything else?
Speaker 2:okay, I've had an experience with a not deer in the northern region of the appalachian area appalachia yay I lived at the edge of the great uh, great north Woods and a friend and I decided to go camping in a field out in the woods a little ways off the trail that we used to ride my horses on all the time. It's about six to seven miles out into the woods, so it's a bit of a trek if you're on foot. Anyway, we had both grown up in the woods and knew how to be safe in regards to wildlife and building a fire safely, all the good stuff. We set up camp, sat by the fire for a bit and then go to sleep in our tent. I don't know how much time had passed, but I remember waking up in a cold sweat to the sound of something walking in the tall grass around the tent the super distinct swish, swish, swish, swish sound, you know.
Speaker 1:Is it like okay when they're saying swish and you might not know this? Is it like the swish of pants that they're hearing, or just the grass?
Speaker 2:I think it's just the grass. Okay, I know what you're talking about, though.
Speaker 1:Either way, Because, like if it sounded human and then looks like a deer, I don't know, I'm even oh.
Speaker 2:I would fucking kill myself. Oh, like a deer, I don't know, I'm even. Oh, I would fucking kill myself.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, what the fuck would you do if you saw that? I don't know. That's why I'm asking I especially you're in a tent. There's nothing like more vulnerable than realizing there's just. I know, and you're always doing that by yourself.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it's nearly pitch black in the tent, but I'm able to look over and see that my friend is already awake and she looks terrified. The feeling of sitting in a tent and listening to the movement outside was indescribable. It's the same oppressive, raw fear you have as a little kid when you're hiding under your blankets from the monster in your closet, felt like being stalked by a predator, that intensely primal feeling that makes you want to make your heart stop beating so damn loud because it might hear you. I've never felt anything like this before or since I've.
Speaker 1:You can feel that in a car right, but you at least have sheet metal between you and whatever the threat is this like putting it exactly like they said. Where it's that?
Speaker 2:like feeling and pulling the blankets up, like you just want to disappear because that's your, your only choices to face it or disappear we stayed up all night listening and waiting, and the sounds of the thing in the grass never stopped until the sun started to come up. Then it just stopped suddenly, like someone flipped a switch. We waited until it was fully daylight before we went, before we left the tent or were even brave enough to make any noise.
Speaker 2:Outside, there was this perfectly round circle of hoof prints in the grass surrounding the tent, like a perfect circle and it didn't look like there was a path that led to or from the circle like tracks. It's so eerie because some of the hoof prints were different sizes it didn't make any sense. Needless to say, we booked it out of there. I dropped out of the contact. I dropped out of contact with that friend years ago, but I've never been camping in the woods out here since then, and whenever I ride my horses along that section of the trail, they always act super jittery and spooky once they get near that field. No matter how many times I've ridden past, it Gives me chills to this day. I don't know for sure if it was a not deer, but from what I've learned of other people's feelings when they encounter them, yeah, it would make sense that one is giving me a little bit of the dog man vibe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know if that's not deer, but I had to add it in here because it was fucking well. I mean, if it's hooves.
Speaker 1:I well, yeah, it's just still this one's just so unsettling all right.
Speaker 2:So how do we feel about the not deer?
Speaker 1:I feel like I would like to not ever see one in my life.
Speaker 2:All right. So because we all need some sort of rationale besides me, because I believe in this, I am going to give you a few ways that people have explained it away.
Speaker 1:I'll take it. I'll take some explanations. We'll see.
Speaker 2:Birth defects? Yeah, I mean. Okay, fine, so the deers have birth defects, so they function strange, or I like this one. The ones seeing the deer are sleep deprived or have just been the result of isolation for too long.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that makes total sense when half these people are literally caring about their normal lives before they go into the woods.
Speaker 2:it's not like they've been in there and the most, probably, I would say, popular one, or the one that I guess probably would make maybe the most sense, other than that this is just a cryptid um chronic wasting disease, so cwd, so also known as zombie deer syndrome which is.
Speaker 1:You beat me to that, because it's one of the few things I know about deer from when I worked in the state parks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I knew you'd probably know this.
Speaker 1:I remember we had one that was just standing in about two foot of water at the Great Lake and that's what I've been thinking of the whole time. They get really weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But with chronic wasting disease you don't you'll see some physical abnormality of mostly looking like it's like, you know, like an animal that's really old.
Speaker 2:It gets like really bony and yeah, yeah, but it's not like barrel chested too long of limbs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it doesn't and it doesn't look, it doesn't fit and shit yeah, so well, just to give all of our listeners, whatever uh, according to the cdcgov, cwd can affect uh farmed and free-range deer and elk in all ages, it can take months to years for the infected animal to show symptoms and these symptoms could be kind of like you were saying drastic weight loss, called wasting, stumbling or lack of coordination, drooling appearing out of it, excessive thirst or peeing, drooping ears, lack of fear of people. Okay, so it's considered a type of prion disease. So these diseases occur when proteins normally in the body misfold, causing symptoms that eventually result in death.
Speaker 1:affects many species we could do a whole episode on prions, because that shit is absolutely terrifying yeah, it sounds creepy, uh, and it mostly affects species of animals with hooves. Here's the thing, though I've seen deer with cwd this is what I'm saying. I don't think it doesn't this could be your logical, it could be, but like you can, just you look at that and you go that's a sick deer. Not like, that's a not right deer yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I I'm.
Speaker 2:So I'm totally with you. Um, and basically this diseases can just be spread through blood, urine, feces, all of the things, and once they get sick, the disease moves to its brain and spine and eventually kills the animal. So that is why it is kind of like the most likely reason. It doesn't work for me, but it doesn't work. But that is the odd, not sure what they actually do, not deer.
Speaker 1:I almost said I like it, but I don't like it at all.
Speaker 2:I just don't get like okay, if they're like a shapeshifter or something, that's fine, I can get down on that because that makes sense to me, especially with that large raccoon, but like, what's their purpose?
Speaker 1:I don't know, do they have one?
Speaker 2:do?
Speaker 1:they just like live and they just like don't have a purpose and like, just when people start to observe them, they're like oh, act like a deer and stop doing it yeah, but what?
Speaker 2:what do you think they're doing? This is what kept really fucking messing with me, because I thought that I really thought that I was like are they some?
Speaker 2:sort of like nowhere alien, though that like exactly it kind of gives alien vibe that's why I couldn't, I couldn't figure it out, because I'm like, like you just said, they're in the middle of nowhere, they're not just like randomly usually where people are. So then I was like like okay, what the fuck are they doing? But even like that one story, like you don't really find a lot about them.
Speaker 1:Maybe if this is less shapeshifter, more some sort of like ancient spirit sort of thing, I mean, I feel like that. I don't know, I don't know on this one.
Speaker 2:That's kind of what I was thinking. It was maybe like a spirit, like an ancient spirit, something like that. I was thinking maybe it was like a watcher type. Yeah, but why are you so?
Speaker 1:weird. It kind of I can't. I can't remember what episode it was, but where was the episode we were talking about with the two girls camping in the backyard and that deer came? The deer horse thing came and then it dropped the ring.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that.
Speaker 1:I don't know why I kept thinking that I know I did that episode. I can't remember what the theme was, though.
Speaker 2:Oh, it was moon.
Speaker 1:That was moons. Yes, yes it was full moon.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know, but I think it's funny and it's just weird. This is actually just a complete side note, but I think it's hilarious Believing the Bizarre. Their Patreon tiers. One of their tiers is called the not tier. I love it or not? Yeah, not deer, not something like that.
Speaker 1:Anyway, Now that you left us with the really dark one this time, but I could leave you with a fun, deer fact to lighten everything up and get out of the creepiness.
Speaker 2:It's probably not going to light us up, is it?
Speaker 1:Well, it depends on what you mean by light up. So did you know that the reason there are so many deer car collisions by highways, it's because many, many deer are addicted to nicotine, because they've been feeding off of cigarette butts thrown out car windows for so long. So the reason why a lot of deers hang out next to the highway and end up getting hit by cars is because they're looking for their next fix.
Speaker 1:That is so sad, it is very sad sad I thought you were gonna lighten the mood, but it's also kind of funny fucking addicts.
Speaker 2:Because we did that, we're ruining the whole entire world okay, well, way to take my light thing ground my wall is black it is.
Speaker 1:That's new, like your heart.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's wrap this up.
Speaker 1:I'm perfect um well, good job, though I am thoroughly terrified, and we'll think about these next time I go out in the woods every time you drive home now and you're gonna be freaking out about seeing a deer because you're gonna think it's a not deer okay, so emojis for this one, I don't know if they're whatever thing you can find close to a deer and then like the little, like you know, know the no sign, the circle with a little line through.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Not deer Got it. That's a good perfect.
Speaker 1:All right. What else are these people do before we let them go back to their normal lives and kick them out of the shop and close it up for the day?
Speaker 2:Just love us. We've gotten a lot of new subscribers on Instagram Subscribers, followers.
Speaker 1:Come on, you elder millennial.
Speaker 2:Followers on Instagram, so I appreciate you guys. If you're now here listening, hi, hope you like this episode. If you're not new here, still leave us emojis and send us some love. Join our Patreon. We do some weirdly kooky, weird things on there. I don't fucking know. You just get more of us and you actually get to see our faces.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:But that's really about it, I love and appreciate you.
Speaker 1:We still need some write-ins and call-ins, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do have some of those. We would need some more. Yeah, that's really all I have for you. Thank you, appreciate you, love you, but the most important thing that you can do for us is to creep a real yard balls goodbye.
Speaker 1:I'm home with the dogman At the Irish shop, hooked in the shadows At the Irish shop, and home with the oddballs At the Irish shop. The door's always open At the Irish shop.
